2xcombatvet <mailto:[email protected]>
Friday, February 6, 2015 12:59 PM
I agree also with Supreet. Same with with the American society.
Everyone bitches but do not unit when there is a problem. Well said
Supreet
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: Supreet Sahni <[email protected]>
Date:02/06/2015 12:34 (GMT-05:00)
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Subject: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
Valve only reacts to actions, not facts and im not disagreeing with OP.
There are still large communities that have their servers populated
almost 24/7 and that's because of the large community base they built
over the years - it's not easy work.
There are only TWO options here:
Play the game by the rules made be Valve, adapt and invent.
OR
Community operators like the ones petitioning in this mailing list
need to create a dynamic or change as a whole that will force Valve to
revert or mutate the quickplay change.
This is what created the problem in the first place - custom servers
that did not enhance player experience were on quickplay and kids
bitching on the forums made them create this change.
So if we want Valve to be forced to change the rule again - we as
community servers need to create a drastic change that forces Valve to
do something. Petition on the list hasn't got a single response from
Valve in a long time.
THE PROPOSITION:
The only thing that I can think of is abuse the quickplay system as
much as you can, put your custom mods servers on there with all the
fucked up crazy custom plugins and game modes on a quickplay map, and
when the quickplay list starts to become a cesspool (in words of
players bitching on the forums), Valve will be forced to make a change
and that change might help us as community ops.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
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Sent: 2/6/2015 10:16 AM
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: hlds Digest, Vol 46, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Rethinking the community quickplay ban (Anthony James Duncan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 17:14:28 -0000
From: "Anthony James Duncan" <[email protected]>
To: "'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list'"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hopefully Valve would then use that opportunity to restore a little
more power the Valve Community ?Moderators? and a system that?s
similar to upward/downward fast. So if you receive enough negative
reports you?d lose 20-30% of the quickplay traffic instead of someone
with positive feedback getting 5-10% priority.
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 2xcombatvet
Sent: 06 February 2015 16:49
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
Olsen, I agree with the blacklisting servers. But there are soo many
scammers and hackers out there that if you are running a really good
server. Some A holes could just come along and blacklist your server
and negatively effect ur server that u worked so hard on... And trust
me there are a lot!!!! Of people who go around and just ruin servers
just for fun.
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: "E. Olsen" <[email protected]>
Date:02/06/2015 11:39 (GMT-05:00)
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
That's my point, though. Even if there are servers who break the rules
(there always will be), putting the power back into the hands of the
players by making their personal blacklist work with both the server
browser AND quickplay solves that problem all together. If the server
IS breaking the rules, and that rule-breaking also detracts from the
game environment, then more and more players will blacklist those
servers, they will lose traffic, etc. etc.
Let's keep in mind, some of those rules are now even being
(technically) broken by Valve themselves. I asked on this very list a
few months ago if the quickplay policy against class limits was still
in effect, since Valve added the ability to do so via vote to their
own servers, but got no reply. Does that mean every time a class limit
vote passes on a Valve server, that they are technically in violation
of their own policy?
That's just an off-the-cuff example showing how certain things (like
class limits) are ridiculous to have rules "against" for receiving
player traffic. I've yet to see or hear of a single server who imposed
class limits as a "punitive" measure - most server operators do so in
order to tailor the experience to what their players want to see. In
that, they are doing absolutely the right thing, and the players
should be able to decide for themselves (via their own blacklist) if
they like those "tweaks" a server operator makes, or if they want to
never set foot on that server again.
...and frankly, that goes for most of the "rules" in place -
customization was the lifeblood that kept people playing TF2 for years
and years. Instant respawn, 32 players, custom maps, custom game
modes....none of that is/was "bad" for the game. It was simply
"different" - which means some people like it, and some don't....the
only difference being that for the last couple of years, Valve has
been pushing "their" version of what they think the game should be
(which is made all the more tragic, as I doubt many of them play
anything but DOTA these days), as opposed to allowing each individual
player to decide on their own the game style/mode that they prefer.
Valves' current approach to the game is synonymous with handing a
restaurant patron a menu with a single meal option on it, and only
telling them about their other hundreds of meal options if they happen
to notice the fine print on the menu that tell them those options
exist. The vast majority of people simple see that, and think "I guess
that's all I can get", otherwise known as the default effect
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_%28psychology%29> .
Diversity should be brought back and encouraged again. All Valve need
do is give the players a "Never show me that server again" button that
works across the board, and they can sit back and watch the cream rise
to the top.
I'd love to see an active mapping & modding scene again, but this
years-long push to homogenize the game is damaging to the very thing
that made it great.
It's been long enough, TF2 team. Time to start treating community
servers with fairness again.
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 7:52 AM, [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
I get the feeling Valve simply doesn't trust the community to provide
a quality experience anymore. Some of it is justified, but lumping all
the community server providers with the likes of Saigns and Nighteam
is hardly fair.
On 6 February 2015 at 13:30, Anthony James Duncan
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
To be honest the new quick play rules don?t even seem to be followed
at all, An example being Skial now kicking people to make room of
reserve slots if they so happen to dare to block ads when the server
is full.
From: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of E. Olsen
Sent: 06 February 2015 02:11
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
The thing is - the solution is as simple as can be. They don't need to
re-invent the scoring system, add server grouping, or even more server
penalties.....all they need to do is have a truly functional blacklist
system that works across the board on a player's client (i.e. a server
that is blacklisted will not appear in that player's server browser OR
quickplay destinations).
That small change alone would do what should have been done in the
first place - put the decision(s) about the quality of a server back
in the player's hands. Truly bad servers would naturally lose traffic
over time, and the good ones would rise to the top. Doing that would
allow players to once again discover custom maps & game modes that are
currently effectively hidden from them, AND give them the power to
prevent themselves from ever being connected to a server they didn't like.
The problem with any kind of automated system is that there are always
those folks who will figure out a way to game them - but players know
a good gaming environment when they see it, and that's where the
judgment should lie - with the players where it belongs.
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 7:04 PM, 2xcombatvet <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> > wrote:
I started cs go maybe a month ago after serving sometime in the
military. I didn't enjoy matching making seemed pointless when u can
get sounds and crates through PvP servers. So I got a server running
5v5 cevo config and my community has grown to 60+ people with regulars
always on server. So I had to buy two servers now. Both are always
full for the most part. I played a lot of cs 1.6 and TF1 didn't really
get into tf2
Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
-------- Original message --------
From: wickedplayer494 <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> >
Date:02/05/2015 18:42 (GMT-05:00)
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >
Cc:
Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
I fully agree. I've seen some of my favorite servers drop like flies
over the past few months (and by extension the last 2 years), and the
assimilation of players into Valve-hosted servers is downright
alarming. Having a Valve-dominated server ecosystem only makes sense
for three things: Dota 2, CS:GO competitive matchmaking, and TF2 MvM
Mann Up. It doesn't make sense for PvP.
Truth be told, people are somewhat right about the game "dying", but
only in some very, very specific components of the game, one of those
being community-run servers. Here's an example: TrashedGamers' Chicago
server. A few months ago, it would fill up every night with players.
Now? You're lucky to find even 4 people playing on a good night. This
is illustrated very well by the HLStatsX graphs for the server, found
at http://stats.trashedgamers.org. Here's an image for people browsing
very, very far into the future: http://i.imgur.com/u8FCWMJ.png
What happened to the days of picking a server yourself through the
browser? Is it really that hard for the community? I think at this
point the only real solution is having to make people go through hoops
to get to quickplay. All it has done is open a can of worms, which
Valve has tried to clean up after (with the Policy of Truth memo long
ago from Fletcher and other measures), but people were still trying to
cheat the system, which forced the hand of Valve. Reducing its
exposure would make it not worthwhile for people to keep trying to
cheat the system. There should be a better emphasis placed on the
server browser. To make it as usable, make scores visible in the
browser, and let users decide for themselves (unless they go through
those hoops to get to quickplay). That way people can pick a server
that they believe looks good to them, instead of chancing that the
server they get placed on looks good. While we're at it, add server
grouping to the browser, so say if someone wants to view all the
servers "Organization A" has, because they look better than
"Organization B", they can pop open all of A's servers instead of
needing to scroll through all of B's servers, leaving them hidden.
Similar named servers that aren't grouped together by the server
operator would be given a score penalty.
On 2/5/2015 3:11 PM, Tim Anderson wrote:
To the TF2 team,
It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban
community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here
are some facts of what has happened since then.
- Player gain dropped 4% from the year before.
- UGC highlander teams dropped 17%
- Highly reduced map variety from community servers.
- Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than
in 2013.
You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is
ruining the experience for the rest.
Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints
about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious
when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as
obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because
official ones are getting all the new players.
Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the
thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just
because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem.
I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It
may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run.
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