I believe it was Henry Ford who said,"An engineer is someone who can do for 
10 cents what any damn fool can do for a dollar."

Paul T.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Curt Austin" <[email protected]>
To: "The Horn List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Is this the future?


> Bill,
>
> I worked as an engineer for a long time. I'm not sure what you are 
> referring to regarding engineering ethics. This is what I know about the 
> formal ethics involved:
>
> General Electric would regard you as an engineer if you had a degree with 
> the word "engineer" in it (but not if it included the word "technology", 
> which would label you a technician). The pay for scientist and engineer 
> was the same, so this was handled similarly. I believe this was an 
> internal practice, without any external need other than to support billing 
> the government properly in cost-plus-fee contracts.
>
> Backing up some, there is little or no ethics training in an engineering 
> curriculum, as far as I know. I spent the entire 1970's getting various 
> engineering degrees - nothing then, at least.
>
> In some fields, and for some purposes, it is helpful to become a 
> "Professional Engineer". This means passing a state-administered test and 
> meeting some other basic requirements (a degree or equivalent experience, 
> for example). Few engineers have a need to do this. A construction design 
> firm needs at least one professional engineer to sign drawings; young 
> civil engineers with any ambition will take the test as soon as possible, 
> before they forget everything. My sense is that it is a far easier test to 
> pass than, say, a bar exam - it is not used to limit the number of 
> engineers in order to protect $400/hour fees. I don't know what ethics 
> code may be involved - a lot is implied when you sign a drawing - "I 
> certify that this bridge will not fall down."
>
> The nature of engineering is devising and maintaining machines, facilities 
> and processes that make things easier, which usually means reducing labor. 
> In a well-functioning society (picture 100 people on an island to avoid 
> the complexities of credit default swaps, etc.), there are better things 
> to do, and this frees up labor to do them. "Hey, this coconut-husking 
> machine is great! Let's go plant some pineapples."
>
> Incidentally, when you look at a jet engine from the side, you can hardly 
> see anything but tubing. There's a need to pipe air from various places to 
> other places - to purge bearings, balance thrust loads, pressurize the 
> cabin - all sorts of things. This tubing is intricately fabricated, 
> welded, bent, and shaped. The shop where all this tubing is made would 
> look familiar to a brass instrument maker (except for the welding). It's 
> made in relatively small  quantities, and largely by "hand" (meaning basic 
> machines and lots of tooling).
>
> Curt Austin
>
>
>
> On Jul 18, 2011, at 6:51 AM, Bill Gross wrote:
>
>> Hans raises a long term ethical question often not addresses in the
>> engineering community.  Without going into great detail, in the US the
>> engineering profession has professional ethics that deal with the way 
>> they
>> provide their professional service.  The one thing that has never really
>> been addressed is what responsibility an engineer who develops a new
>> manufacturing process has to the employees who might be displaced because 
>> of
>> it.
>>
>
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