You are correct to surmise that I reacted with a bit of anger when you
attacked my suggestion by throwing out a warning to listers that to
follow it risks serious damage to one's instrument. You started by
accusing me of recommending practices that could ruin an instrument,
and now, when I make an attempt to defend my original claims, you call
me a fool.
There is an issue here. You are telling people that they risk serious
damage unless they use wheel bearing grease on the bell threads. My
experience is, if you keep the threads clean and smooth, the most you
should ever need to lubricate them can be gotten from rubbing the clean
threads with a piece of wax paper.
I have my own machine shop, and I use this method on the surfaces of
all my tools. Here in Laguna Beach, enough mist comes in off the ocean
that unprotected metal rusts quickly. Wiping down a jointer bed with
waxed paper makes wood and metal slide like silk, but doesn't
contaminate a bare wood finish.
Since you are so adamant about standing by what you posted, please
share more of your expertise, especially the basis of your claims. I
keep my bell threads clean and dry. When I first got my Paxman was when
I cleaned the threads with extra fine Scotch-Brite. The waxed paper
leaves a dry, hard, surface that wipes clean. If it starts to squeak, I
drag out the wax paper. I've been using the same piece for years and
shared with many squeaky bells along the way.
How can you tell if your grease has picked up particles? Can you find
and remove individual particles, or do you have to strip and redress
the threads each time? What would it take to get you to degrease your
threads and try wax for awhile? What damage would you anticipate, were
you to try this method?
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: The Horn List <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:44:31 -0400
Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
I cannot possibly do a better job of making a complete fool of you,
than you already have on your own.
My Paxman horns have benefitted from many years of careful maintenance
using wheel bearing grease, with no ill effects, and will continue to
serve me well, I am sure.
My sincerest apologies if you were offended by my use of the term
"abrasive". I was referring to the material, not the method. Please
re-read the message.
And I stand by what I posted.
Back to practising, and beer.
Best regards,
Martin Bender
On 28-Apr-06, at 2:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The factuality of the methodology is the entire argument here. You >
brought up the tribal mythology that anything resembling abrasive, > no
matter to what degree, will quickly destroy a valuable French > horn. I
presented a very simple method that avoids the use of > graphite or
grease. Your disagreement with my system, and the > reasons for it,
would lead a reasonable person to conclude that > grease or graphite is
inevitably necessary. You directly attacked > my method by branding it
abrasive.
>
> I will stand with my claim that messy lubricants are totally >
unnecessary for lubing the bell screw. It is your right and > privilege
to post suggestions, but you attacked my methodology and > tried to
control the high ground by using the magic word, > 'abrasive'. You've
taken a position contrary to mine, and I've > foolishly called you on
it. Now is the time when you should expose > your unassailable
expertise, and make a complete fool of me. So, > convince me that,
unless I smear it with wheel grease, my Paxman > will be ruined.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: The Horn List <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:08:48 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
>
> I'm not going to get drawn into a pissing contest regarding >
factual or non-factual methodologies or mythologies. I have owned >
screw-bell horns for 30 years, performed hundreds of concerts in >
formal attire, and consistently lubricated and cared for my horns > as
I described, using miniscule amounts of wheel bearing grease. I > was
sharing my experiences with someone who was requesting > assistance in
the maintenance of screw rings, based on my own > experience-- far from
making ignorant pronouncements.
> That someone has a different perspective based on their >
experience, does not give another person license to label them or >
their experience ignorant. Different would be a more appropriate >
adjective.
> Respect for another persons ideas is a basic tenet in the >
information sharing process, and as a clearing house for > information,
this site can be a valuable resource. As adults, it's > a sign of
maturity that two people can disagree without being > disagreeable.
> Best regards,
> Martin Bender
>
> On 27-Apr-06, at 8:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > It might be a good idea if you had some factual information >
about > my method and the materials I use before making ignorant > >
pronouncements. Most of the performances I do require formal > >
attire, and it is idiotic to recommend the use of graphite or > >
bearing grease, neither of which can be removed from white > >
clothing. The Scotch-Brite I recommend is the equivalent of 0000 > >
steel wool and is used to prepare a surface for final polishing. > >
The abrasive is embedded into a plastic matrix. If there is any > >
residue it can be wiped off, unless you're foolish enough to mix it > >
with bearing grease. The wax paper leaves a very thin, hard > surface >
behind that is very smooth and slippery. It is good to > replenish >
the wax surface, but it should never have to be cleaned > off
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: The Horn List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:13:03 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
> >
> > I disagree.
> > The Scotch-brite (which is an abrasive material) pad will leave >
> fine particles behind, which are abrasive. Then you have to clean > >
the threads of the small abrasive particles that remain, or else > >
they get ground up in the threads. I would never use Scotch-brite > >
on the soft metal the threads are made of, on any of my three > horns >
which are all screw bells. Ideally, you want the threads to > have a >
very small amount of lubricant, in order to slide smoothly > over >
each other as they are very fine. Wax will also attract > dirt, and >
is much harder to remove once it gums up the threads. > You can >
always clean the threads with a spot of kerosene on a > clean rag; >
this will dissolve the grease, and clean the threads > so you can >
then re-apply a small amount of grease to the threads. > Selmer makes >
a synthetic slide grease (it's red) which also works > quite well. >
Think very small amounts.
> > The threads on a screw bell horn are like the slides on your >
horn. > They do require a bit of attention in order to last for the >
life of > the instrument.
> > Best regards,
> > martin bender
> > On 27-Apr-06, at 2:22 PM, Christine Ranson wrote:
> >
> > > Arg now I am confused, I've had three completely different >
replies!
> > >
> > > Where is wax paper avaliable from?
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> Reply-To: The Horn List <[email protected]>
> > >> To: [email protected]
> > >> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
> > >> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 13:11:20 -0400
> > >>
> > >> Lubricants will make a mess and attract grit like a magnet. >
Get > an >> extra fine Scotch-Brite pad at home depot and polish > any
crud > off >> the threads. You just want to remove what > shouldn't be
> there. With >> the threads clean, rub them hard with > a wad of wax >
paper. Keep the >> wad in your case to dress the > threads when needed.
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Martin Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> To: The Horn List <[email protected]>
> > >> Sent: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:24:45 -0400
> > >> Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Quick question about cleaning.....
> > >>
> > >> A small amount of wheel bearing grease on the threads will >
keep >
>>> them moving smoothly.
> > >> Martin Bender
> > >>
> > >> On 27-Apr-06, at 8:27 AM, Christine Ranson wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I am washing my detachable bell horn for the first time since
I
> >>> > bought it (the lead pipe was foul!)
> > >> >
> > >> > ANYWAY. The thought just struck me.....does the screw bit > >
need >> any > kind of lube or special oil or anything?
> > >> >
> > >> > >
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