Hi Sev, apologies - I posted that last message before I saw yours - it got delayed for some reason...
I think I should expand a little on what I meant. I use JOSM to select buildings for squaring at the end of validating a square. If there are circular huts or complicated (but well-mapped) buildings, then I either do it manually or deselect these before squaring. I would not suggest that every validator select all buildings and hit Q at the beginning of validating a task. >From what I have seen, apart from those that validate by mistake (which I do realise happens), most validators are very careful with the data. Pete On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Severin Menard <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > This would be IMHO an horrible practice, for the complex buildings skilled > mappers took the time to map + basically all the round huts. > As a common OSM rule is not to tag for the rendering, a new one should be > not to distord the data because of the shortcomings of an editing tool. ID > should propose a building tool or automatically propose to square the > buildings to anyone having drawn a surface and tag it as a building. > Basically it is IMHO a few hours of code vs tons of hours for validators to > clean the crappy data. I had a brief discussion about this with someone > from Mapbox during the Nepal activation, when it was obvious the higher > proportion of new mappers was producing data with lower quality than usual > during activations. People from Mapbox, please consider to improve iD in > this way. > > Sincerely, > > Severin > Le 14 avr. 2016 11:44, "john whelan" <[email protected]> a écrit : > >> I think we are agreed that squaring individual buildings is a hassle for >> the validators. >> >> Do I hear that selecting all buildings with less than 7 nodes and >> squaring/resquaring them all at once is acceptable although not ideal? >> >> Thanks John >> >> On 14 April 2016 at 04:15, Jo <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It would be far better to add a tool comparable to buildings-tools >>> plugin to iD. We should have proposed that for GSoC2016... well, maybe next >>> year. >>> >>> Jo >>> >>> 2016-04-14 9:47 GMT+02:00 Suzan Reed <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> JOSM is the tool to use, I agree. However I did become somewhat of an >>>> iD power user and so I just tried to square a number of polygons at once >>>> rather than one at a time. I tried many variations including selecting all >>>> of them and then trying to apply the “s” tool and grouping them. Nothing >>>> worked. Maybe the iD team could add that to iD? Then new mappers could then >>>> square all their buildings in one go when the mistake is pointed out. It >>>> would be quite useful. Squaring buildings in either iD or JOSM is a >>>> thankless and tedious task. >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> Suzan >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 11:01 PM, Ralf Stephan <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I might be missing something but what's wrong with selecting all >>>> buildings in JOSM via Search (check if there are huts selected or 45-degree >>>> buildings of course) and then do a mass orthogonalization? That would be >>>> part of a validation workflow and could even be automated. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 7:48 AM Jo <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> If you want a building squared at 45 degrees in JOSM, for some reason, >>>> you can start with a closed way with 8 nodes, then use the circle tool. >>>> >>>> Or you can press 'a' twice, allowing you to add the next part of a way >>>> at 15 degree angle intervals. It's possible to create really nice geometric >>>> shapes using this method. >>>> >>>> One has to know the tool one is working with. >>>> >>>> When people insist on working with iD, it's necessary to tell them >>>> (over and over again) about the importance of doing the extra step of >>>> squaring the rectangular buildings. For one thing, it makes using JOSM's >>>> extrude tool easier, if it's needed to improve the building. >>>> >>>> I understand that, as a validator, it's extremely tedious to square all >>>> those buildings, even when using the todo plugin and pressing ]q]q]q]q]q] >>>> hundreds of times. You could invalidate the tiles which contain mostly >>>> unsquared buildings. Or you could just leave them alone, post a remark to >>>> the user and validate the tile anyway. Better that than becoming burned out >>>> as a validator. >>>> >>>> I've been trying to get people to understand how much work it is to >>>> validate their tiles, when buildings are not squared by creating >>>> screencasts and posting a link to it in the comment field. This was rather >>>> effective, but it still is rather time consuming and there are always new >>>> users coming in, which, for some reason, were not trained with JOSM the >>>> power tool, but with iD instead. >>>> >>>> Anyway, those screencasts were also meant as a way to show people the >>>> advantages of using JOSM, but I don't know if I have been very successful >>>> at getting them to start using it. It's hard to make people switch to >>>> something new, which is why I'll be teaching only JOSM, this Saturday (also >>>> because I don't know iD all that well, ofc). I failed to follow up, as I >>>> moved on to other projects that gave me more satisfaction (as a validator). >>>> >>>> Polyglot >>>> >>>> 2016-04-14 4:15 GMT+02:00 Suzan Reed <[email protected]>: >>>> How about showing people how to map a building and square it right at >>>> the beginning of mapping? It’s all one motion for me. >>>> >>>> Just a suggestion! >>>> >>>> Suzan >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 13, 2016, at 7:05 PM, Clifford Snow <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 4:52 PM, john whelan <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Seeing 200 unsquared buildings by one mapper on a tile makes me think >>>> they weren't using JOSM and the building-tool. I could be wrong, the same >>>> mapper also left behind three area=yes squares that just happened to be the >>>> same as a building image. Again it is perfectly possible to do this in >>>> JOSM to draw such a shape and tag it area=yes, though why anyone with JOSM >>>> and the building_tool plugin would do such a thing I can't imagine. >>>> >>>> I'm asking a pragmatic question given that I'm seeing so many unsquared >>>> buildings when validating is it essential they be squared? and if so how >>>> do we get squared buildings? >>>> >>>> From my experience with hosting Missing Maps and HOT mapathons many of >>>> the mappers are first time contributors. We try to get them mapping as >>>> quickly as possible. After a period of time we introduce new techniques, >>>> such as squaring buildings and copy paste. The behavior you observed may be >>>> the lack of training. If its possible to find out if the mapper attended an >>>> event and if so who organized it to give gentle constructive feedback to >>>> the host. (Hopefully it wasn't one of ours) >>>> >>>> Clifford >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> @osm_seattle >>>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us >>>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> HOT mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> HOT mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> HOT mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >> > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > -- *Pete Masters* Missing Maps Project Coordinator +44 7921 781 518 missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject>
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