| Frederic: wow! thanks! This is a lot of help, and I appreciate it. I was about to give it up. But based on your recommendation, I am thinking I’ll go back up and take another series of photos. I have been reluctant to try to take just a few to “fill in” since the light will be very different from day to day. But today the sky looks pretty clear of clouds over the mountains so might try again. And, I’m thinking I’ll use my iPhone rather than my Nikon 2. With a selfie stick I can hold it out and get a shot from the horizon down to near the nadir. In that way I won’t need to take four photos from each position. It seems that Hugin has trouble stitching together photos that are adjacent to each other up and down, right and left, AND from different positions. (Of course it still could be just me!).
Question: When having to change places by moving around the rooftop, is a lot of overlap and a lot of images better than less overlap and fewer images?
Question: When using the MacBook Pro, the image in the center window on the screen after stitching is tiny, and I cannot seem to enlarge it. Is there a way to “zoom in”?
I tried it too. I did everything
manually, I never use the assistant. Here is how I proceeded:
- I let Hugin Create control points
- I optimized using following steps (checking at each step
that standard deviation was improving):
- Positions (incremental, starting from anchor)
- Positions and translation
- Positions, translation and view
- Positions, translation and barrel
- Positions, translation, view and barrel
- I previewed the results: things were completely off.
- I deleted a few control points which were obviously on
reflections, as well as control points which could not work
(for example a control point on the sea horizon or on moving
objects such as cars, beware of boats, some moored boats are
actually moving slightly)
- I added a few vertical lines and a few horizontal lines
- I reset all images and ran point 3 again: better, but some
buildings were still skewed and some image borders did not
match enough to my taste
- I added control points on faraway points (characteristic
points on the mountains, faraway buildings...) and removed
"duplicated" control points (control points placed by Hugin
which were so close together that I couldn't see both numbers
at the same time)
- I reset all and ran point 3 again: definitely better
- I removed all automatically generated control points which
were between 2 other close control points. I deliberately
removed more aggressively control points close (to the camera)
than remote control points, trying to give more weight to the
far image. The reasoning here is that parallax errors will be
very frequent because the camera was moved a lot; because of
this, matching both close objects and distant objects at the
same time is impossible, I choose first if I prefer my images
to match in close objects or in distant objects. Because of
your use case, I decided that matching the horizon was
preferable.
- I reset all and ran point 3 again: what I saw seemed good,
except that at some point I stopped seing the seaward part
(and I did not notice it was missing). Actually, images 4, 5
& 6 are there, but they are seen from the side. I attach
this version as 0_1 - 330_1 - v1.pto
- In an attempt to fix things, I tried to add vertical and
horizontal lines in images where they were missing and to add
control points between images 8 & 9, but results were
close to the previous one.
- So I decided to change strategy: I removed all control
points on buildings, keeping only control points on the
ground.
- Because I had eliminated the buildings from the problem, I
reasoned that translation was maybe not a useful parameter and
I optimized using following steps (checking at each step that
standard deviation was improving):
- Positions (incremental, starting from anchor)
- Positions and view
- Positions, translation and view
- Positions and barrel distorsion (standard deviation was
worse here so that I did not apply this step)
- Positions, view and barrel
- Everything without distorsion. I repeated this last step
until standard deviation stopped improving.
- The result seems pretty good IMO (0_1 - 330_1 - v2.pto)
Here is what I would do now: I would have generated the
panorama using the option "Normal panorama with layered TIFF
output", loaded the result in Gimp or a similar tool and worked
with layers and masks in order to keep from each image the best
ground level and get straight-looking buildings.
I suggest taking intermediate photos:
- between 5 & 6 (not enough overlap),
- and between 6 & 7, and 7 & 8 to try to create more
control points there (because it is impossible to put control
points close to the horizon on those).
Also, maybe taking more than one picture from each place (like
you did with 0 & 1 and 3 & 4) would improve the end
result. At least it would give you more options in the final
Gimp step.
I hope I was clear enough in my explanations.
Le 02/08/2024 à 09:10, Sam Rhoads a écrit :
Thanks again David. I will open that PTO file tomorrow and let
you know whether or not I would like you to send me that 189 MB
file.
Of possible interest to everyone, I got a MacBook Pro today
and will try using Hugin and my images with it, and tell
everyone later what happens.
Had sushi for dinner.
On that panorama, I selected
the images in my file manager and ran Hugin's Generate PTO
tool. I use Linux, I don't know if Windows has that
capability.
Then I went to the panorama
preview, clicked on the Assistant button, then clicked on
the align button, and got a 360-deg panorama.
I think if you open the PTO in
Hugin, you should get the same pano. Hugin may tell you
that alignment or control points have changed, or
something like that, but I think that's something you can
ignore.
I think I added some points
manually, because there were a couple of image pairs that
didn't have any control points.
Adding horizontal lines to the
images that have horizons, then running Align again,
should level the images in the panorama. I didn't try that
in the PTO file I sent. It improved things quite a bit in
my first try at the panorama, but that one only gave me a
180-deg panorama.
I have a TIFF image of it, if
you're interested. It comes to 2274x3494 (not cropped),
189MB. On the left end is one image, then a black area
that shades into the next image. I have no idea what
caused that.
Enjoy your dinner!
On 8/1/24 18:48, Sam Rhoads
wrote:
Thanks David. When my panorama was in that shape, I spent
a lot of time with Photoshop “fixing” things. But my real
question is whether this one will be “sharper” than the
one I produced. Do you think if I open that pto file in
Hugin I’ll get the same panorama? I’ll try that in a
while. Did you create a tiff image? Right now I have to
go buy dinner.
Did you let Hugin find control points? Did you add
any manually?
More questions later.
I didn't use any
horizontal lines in this one. They would have
helped fix the wavy horizon.
Attaching a screen shot
and the PTO file that produced it. Neither of them
came out as straight as the original one you
produced.
On 8/1/24 18:27, Samuel
Rhoads wrote:
Great David.
Please attach it. I'd like to see it.
No problem.
I've never made a 360-deg pano. I don't
know how to make one at all. So I might
simply not be doing it right in the first
place. But the second time I tried, I got
a 360-deg panorama from it.
On 8/1/24 17:39, Samuel Rhoads wrote:
I screwed up. I
was pretty sure I had only included
the *_1 files, but I see that I did
include two _3 files by mistake.
Sorry 'bout that!
But the 12 _1
files: 0_1, 30_1, 60_1 ..., should
make a 360 degree pan.
Yes, I used your zip file, the
one in the link below. It doesn't
have 12 images in it, it has 14.
These two images don't have any
mountains or ocean in them:
120_3.jpg and 210_3.jpg. The 210_3
image has a part of the same beach
that's already covered in the
210_1 image.
I think the *_3 images aren't
needed, and apparently you removed
them from some other zip file you
uploaded to Google Drive?
I've never made a 360-deg
panorama, so I got a 180-degree
partial one.
On 8/1/24 13:41, Sam Rhoads
wrote:
David:
That’s confusing. The 12 images:
0_1 through 330_1, all have either
the ocean or mountains on the
horizon. Did you use the zip file
that had all 12 images? If some
of those 12 images were removed,
the panorama wouldn’t have been
complete?
When I tried the
Hugin Assistant, it found
control points on all of
them. I don't know anything
about using Translation. I
did eventually get sort-of
straight horizon but only
after removing two images
that were mostly building
foundations that had no
horizon as part of them.
Thanks
Carl. Any idea why the
optimizer tab only shows
up then? I spent hours
trying to get the
optimizer tab to appear
There are so many
things that I just do
not understand. I don’t
understand how people
learn all these
options.
Indeed it
couldn't find
points for those
images.
The Optimizer
tab pops up when
you have Optimize
\ Geometric \
Custom Parameters
selected.
Carl:
Can you tell
me a little
about your
experience?
Did Hugin tell
you that it
couldn’t find
any CPs for
120_1 &
150_1? Did
the Optimizer
tab appear?
Did the
stitcher
report that
some images
didn’t belong
to the set?
I
tried to make
a panorama of
your photos
but I failed.
After years of
using Hugin I
still don't
know what I'm
doing. Maybe
someone else
can give it a
go.
To
be clear, I am
hoping that
someone in the
community will
take the 12
images in this
zip file and
try to create
a panorama
using Hugin.
When I do
that, I get
strange error
messages that
I do not
understand.
The resulting
panorama won’t
be
satisfactory
for SkySafari,
but at least
I’ll find out
what’s causing
the errors.
Trying once
again!
Forgive an old
stupid man,
please.
<Screenshot_2024-08-01_18-32-21.png>
<0_1-330_1.pto>
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<0_1 - 330_1 - v1.pto> <0_1 - 330_1 - v2.pto>
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