People seem much nicer to us since the SC order' Supriya Sharma | April 23, 2011
FIGHTING SPIRIT: One of the many unknown activists working in India's tribal heartland, Binayak Sen shot into the limelight after his arrest in 2007. The trial that followed turned into a rallying point for all those protesting against the state's draconian ways to silence dissent. Four months ago, a court pronounced civil rights activist Binayak Sen guilty of sedition and support to the Maoists, banishing him for the rest of his life to a windowless cell in Raipur jail. His only contact with the outside world was three newspapers served with gaping holes - articles relating to his case were cut out by the jailor - and a bulletin on Doordarshan. On Friday, April 15, it was a ticker on TV that brought the good news: the Supreme Court had granted him bail and, better still, observed that there was no evidence of sedition in the case. The 61-year-old doctor talks to TOI-Crest soon after his freedom on democracy, dissent and disparity. And, yes, on Anna Hazare's anti-corruption struggle. His wife Ilina joins the conversation towards the end and says it’s time they seriously thought of spending more time with each other. Did you sleep well last night? We slept late, and since I rise early I didn't get much sleep. But it was good to be back home with family. You had already spent more than two years in jail as an undertrial but was it harder this time, being a convict? Yes. The lower court verdict and the rejection of bail by the high court were both extremely hard to deal with. We were very clear we had not committed any act that would come under the definition of sedition. We knew we had not betrayed the country and our people. After the long haul you and your family went through, there emerged a silver lining with what the Supreme Court said about sedition, subsequently followed up by heartening remarks the law minister made. We think the statement of Union law minister Veerapa Moily that the sedition law needs to be reexamined is a very important development. The existing law is a holdover from colonial rule. We need a better set of definitions of loyalty to the country and the people of India that is more in keeping with our status as free citizens of a free country The Supreme Court said, 'He may be a Maoist sympathiser but there is no evidence for sedition'. What do you feel about the term 'Maoist sympathiser' ? >From what we understand, the Supreme Court judges have not said I am a Maoist sympathiser. They have posed a hypothetical case;that even if I were a Maoist sympathiser, that still does not support a diagnosis of sedition. On the subject of Maoists, as someone who has worked in tribal areas, where do your concerns converge with their movement, and what are the points of divergence? I don't want to make a putative conversation with the Maoists the centrepiece of what I have to say. I would instead like to talk about the issue of structural violence which is the reality in these areas. As a doctor it is far more important to me that large sections of the population are malnourished in terms of both body mass index and anaemia. It affects their ability to combat infections, which is also an important part of the life experiences of the tribal people. We have all these problems associated with child bearing and women. There are problems of malaria and tuberculosis. Chhattisgarh has the highest incidence of leprosy. There is a whole repertoire of problems that needs to be addressed. Without addressing these problems, we cannot begin to talk about justice and peace. Do you resent being asked to articulate a position on the Maoists? I don't want to be restricted in that sense. As a human rights worker I have things to say about the human situation of the people living in these areas. It would only be fair I should be questioned on the basis of work I have done. We have looked at human rights problem like Salwa Judum and have characterised them to the best of our ability. I am not an expert on Maoists. I have not gone with them or studied them to comment on their ways of operation. There is structural violence of the state and then there is the real physical violence by both sides. Many despair for the tribal populace living in the midst of this. My way of looking at it is how to go beyond it. Democracy is about consent and the belief that nobody has the monopoly over wisdom. That ordinary people are capable of ruling their lives in the way they think appropriate. Apart from what violence does to people in physical terms, violence cuts short democractic debate. Whether the state uses violence or any nonstate entity predicates a movement on violence, debate shuts down. But if the state resorts to violence to carry out processes of consent, then communities that survive on natural resources cannot be expected to lie down and die. We have laws like PESA (that mandates consultation with gram sabhas in tribal areas before land is acquired). We need to encourage democratic processes. There has to be a legitimate forum for articulation of resistance. Talking about resistance, you must have heard about the recent protests at Jantar Mantar led by Anna Hazare that saw large-scale participation of people, including the middle classes. Crony capitalism has been around for long, but the disparities have only intensified in recent years. People are fed up of the scale of corruption. Many of my old friends were part of the protests, but I don't know enough to comment on it further. Does it hearten you that the middle class, often seen as indifferent, joined the protests, and that media covered it with great prominence? Or do you despair that other, longer drawn struggles on the ground do not get similar attention? Iron Sharmila (in Manipur) has drawn attention to the fact that her fast of 10 years had not brought about change. She is making an important point. But I would not like to decry what the anti-corruption people have tried to do. What they are doing is very important and very necessary. Does it trouble you that the struggles in tribal areas remain peripheral to the national discourse unless there is violence? These people are confronting massive problems and our response has been inadequate. We have been able to draw some attention to the problems, but have not been able to make any major change. We need far greater involvement from everybody to address these problems. There were rallies in your support all over the country, but just one in Chhattisgarh. Do you sense hostility here? People seem much nicer to us since the Supreme Court order. Ilina (joining in): My sense is that in a place like Chhattisgarh the state has a larger presence than civil society. It sets the agenda. When he was jailed there were headlines like 'Binayak ya khalaynayak'. There was a strange kind of jubilation, almost vicarious pleasure. The trial court has asked you to surrender your passport and not leave the country. This reminded me of what Ilina said about leaving the country. That was a momentary thing. We have never seriously thought about leaving the country. But since I am not sure what exactly did Ilina say, maybe you should ask her. Ilina: I had said I wish I was living in a liberal democratic country. As soon as I said that, everybody's nationalist hackles went up - even those who have sons, daughters, sisters, brothers living abroad. To start with, I did not say I was asking for asylum. And then look at the timing of the statement. There had just been a vengeful conviction. It was obvious that the state was not just trying to destroy Binayak but also me. You heard the kind of comments made about my work. (Rupantar, the non profit run by Ilina, was described in court as a front organisation for Maoists). I had a perception of threat which came true when the Maharashtra Anti Terrorism Squad booked me under the Foreigners Act. And I don't need a certificate in nationalism from anybody, since I have spent the best years of my life in India. So, what are your plans now? We cannot make plans in isolation, we need to talks to friends and colleagues... Ilina: There are personal issues to tackle. Like I have a job in Wardha, so I have to go back tomorrow. Maybe he can spend time with you there? Yes that's what I plan to do, at least for sometime Ilina: You know, on the day of his conviction it hit me that we have not spent enough time together. He was busy with his work, I was busy with mine. The idea was whenever we are free we catch up. But after what we have gone through, mujhe lagta hai bahut ho gaya (enough is enough), now I feel we should spend time together. This makes me wonder where and how did you first meet? Ilina: We met in Jabalpur. 35 years ago. He was studying medicine... 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