> On 1 Jun 2015, at 08:30, [email protected] wrote: Oh dear,! The hornets are out, but I am not stung because I did not originate this remark, but merely repeated it. > It came from Frans Bruggen, who, in 1965, was fast becoming recognised as > the best recorder player since several consecutive generations and whose > knowledge and insight were far greater than mine. The “cognoscenti” (sorry. My sarcasm) were mentioned some time ago on Matt Loibner’s website as people who thought the HG was incomplete. Presumably in an attempt to satisfy these people he produced a CD in which some pieces had no drones, if I remember correctly. > There seems to be a misunderstanding for I am not discussing temperament, > with which I came to terms long ago when tuning Doreen’s harpsichord. I find > just temperament ideal for the vielle, and with a couple of tweaks I use it > at all time. I could not possibly use a tuning where almost all notes are are > of tune. Some are forced to use it so as to lay with others and the ear > adjusts. But for solo and chamber music - horrible. My contention remains that if we judge early music as an experience on the basis of all that has preceded it, including modulation, then we may well be confused and dissatisfied, for it will seem to be lacking. But if we are to play baroque music correctly we must understand the musical rules and interpretation of the time, free from later influences. Now, let us upright the applecart and munch an apple. Michael > > [email protected] > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/hurdygurdy/topics> > Google Groups > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview> > > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email/#!overview> > > Topic digest <> > View all topics > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/hurdygurdy/topics> > modulation <x-msg://12/#group_thread_0> - 3 Updates > <>modulation > <http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy/t/b3ed9c692c62ed0c?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email> > Michael Muskett <[email protected]>: May 31 10:51AM +0100 > > From across the pond > > I have heard that in the opinion of some cognocenti that the > hurdy-gurdy/vielle is not a true musical instrument because its music can not > modulate. > > Modulation means the ability to change from one key to another by the use of > a system of chord changes. The G/C tuning of a vielle allows of playing in > only two keys, C major and its tonic minor, (c minor). But if an F sharp is > introduced we can make a cadence in the dominant, G, although we can not > remain in that key because it would clash with the drones. > > The drones, however, are so harmonically rich that they constantly support > the melody whatever the note and this is fully satisfying without the need to > modulate. The music must, of course, be composed with this in mind as is the > case with all other instruments, for all have both limitations and special > qualities. In fact the art of orchestration is a study in itself and goes > alongside composition. > > Modulation was developed only by the mid 17th century and the vielle is not > the only instrument of history whose music does not modulate. For instance > the principal domestic keyboard instrument from the early 16th century to the > mid 17th was the virginal. There is much beautiful music for this quiet > instrument created by composers such as Wm Byrd, Orlando Gibbons, Giles > Farnaby, and we must not close our ears to this wealth of music from former > times, for we would be the poorer by doing so. > > Going further back there is also plainsong, ultimately the foundation of our > present Western system. And then there has been illiterate folk music since > the beginning of time. > > If we are to understand the music of past ages, whether for study or pleasure > we must disregard all that has followed, for our preconceptions will > otherwise get in the way of its performance and enjoyment. > > > > (P.S. Just a thought. How can we stop reporters from using the word > orchestrated when they simply mean organized, but seem afraid to say so?) > Arle Lommel <[email protected]>: May 31 01:57PM +0200 > > Hi Michael, > > I'm curious who would actually say such an ignorant thing (“that the > hurdy-gurdy/vielle is not a true musical instrument because its music can not > modulate”). Any such person who would make such a statement surely cannot be > called a cognoscente. As you note, modulation (outside a limited range of > keys) only become common late on in Western music (and the development > largely corresponds to the development of equal temperament, without which > arbitrary modulation is hardly possible). > > However, I am not sure that we can actually “disregard all that has followed, > for our preconceptions will otherwise get in the way of its performance and > enjoyment”. If, like the late Victorians, we hold that change is evolution > toward an ideal endpoint, then we will fail to appreciate earlier music, > forever seeing it as a “primitive” waypoint, at most quaintly charming, but I > think one can derive great enjoyment from comparing musics from different > times and places. > > I can no more disregard my knowledge of Bach when listening to Tallis than I > can read a treatise on medieval concepts physics while somehow forgetting > what I know of Newtonian physics. But that is not to say that I cannot > appreciate Tallis or medieval physics greatly. And in the case of Tallis I > probably enjoy it all the more for knowing where polyphonic music would > arrive with Bach and seeing how Tallis anticipated what later composers did > or the ways in which his work is (re)interpreted in striking ways today. > (Surely no-one would argue that Kronos Quartet’s Spem in Alium, done in ten > layered takes, represents period performance or interpretation, yet I find it > a compelling interpretation of Tallis.) > > Similarly, I find the samba-infused interpretations of Medieval and > Renaissance music by the Brazilian group Anima to breathe wonderful life into > their repertoire in a way that a purist stance that closes off all later > development cannot do, simply because I have no way of listening to period > music with period ears. > > It's a thought-provoking question, and you have touched on a debate that will > never be resolved one way or the other. I do like to hear a passionate > defense in the discussion though, so thank you. > > Best, > > Arle > Alden Hackmann <[email protected]>: May 31 12:22PM -0700 > > My short answer is that the definition of "true musical instrument as > needing to modulate" seems arbitrary and elitist. I'll let that pass, and > move on: > > Until we adopted equal temperament, NO instrument was capable of modulating > to all keys. In just temperament, or any non-equal temperament, some keys > are better than others. The HG as a drone instrument is ideal for a just > temperament: all of the notes should be in perfect harmony with the drone. > If we tune the HG in equal temperament, all of the notes are a little off > from the drone. It's just the way the universe works. > > The difficulty with just temperament is that not every key sounds good, but > some keys sound fabulous. > > The difficulty with equal temperament is that every key sound equally good, > but no key sounds fabulous. > > Given this choice, I choose some keys sound fabulous. We can modulate when > we're in just temperament, just not to every key. Even in equal > temperament, the drones limit us, and that's fine. > > Alden > > Back to top <x-msg://12/#digest_top> > You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. > You can change your settings on the group membership page > <https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=digest&utm_medium=email#!forum/hurdygurdy/join>. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>.
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