Re: It's a Long Way to the Top (if You want a Koutline Top Margin)

Fri, 23 May 2025 14:18:29 -0700

Hi Cena:

I get that you had this one particular desire that you went after with gusto but how about discussing your use of the existing capabilities of the Koutliner.  Can you structure information with it rapidly? Are the key bindings ergonomic for you?  Does it give you anything beyond Org mode?  Is the documentation clear?

These are the things we work at and would love to hear feedback on.

Regards,

-- Bob

On May 23, 2025, at 3:03 PM, Cena Mayo <cenaz...@gmail.com> wrote:



I've recently been playing around with Koutliner and got stuck on a seemingly minor issue.

Koutliner opens a new file (both .kotl and .org) with the cursor (and first cell) butting right up at the top left of the frame/window/buffer boundary.

Not sure if images can be embedded here so here's a link to screenshot to illustrate: https://ibb.co/jPSG5mMg

I don't like this; it 'feels' claustrophobic to me.  Usually I can hit return a few times to get a top margin I like, but I can't seem to do that here; the `1.` stays firmly in place.

So, because I'm a newbie at Emacs/Hyperbole, these small things become deep rabbit holes.  Is this a Hyperbole issue?  The manual doesn't seem to mention it.  Is it Emacs? How come Org/scratch/fundamental/text/etc. don't impose this immovable top margin thing on me? etc. 

An aside:

Deleting (variously: C-x C-k; Kout menu 'Edit->Kill-Tree') the starting '1.'/first cell results in:

if: (kotl-mode:delete-char): Beginning of cell [13 times]
if: (kcell-view:to-label-end): In cell at pos 55, can’t find beginning of cell [2 times]
Error in pre-command-hook (kotl-mode:pre-self-insert-command): (error "(kcell-view:to-label-end): In cell at pos 55, can’t find beginning of cell")

and the file doesn't seem recoverable after that; attempting to edit leads to:

setq: Args out of range: 51, 51 [2 times]
Error in pre-command-hook (kotl-mode:pre-self-insert-command): (args-out-of-range 51 51)
 
---

Ways I attempted to modify the top margin that don't work (in addition to the above):

- HyControl: 
(defvar hycontrol-screen-offset-alist
  '(((3456 . 2234) . (100 100 100 100)) ; 24" iMac HD display
    (t . (100 100 100 100))))

[although not at all sure I'm using HyControl appropriately/correctly; hycontrol-get-screen-offsets shows "Screen pixel offsets are: Left: 0; Top: 0; Right: 0; Bot: 0" after reloading Emacs with the defvar in init.el.]

Countless fruitless hours of almost, but not quite understanding



and the like, and it finally sank in that is this an Emacs issue;

I then tried, lazily, to effect a quick change with:



- Org-Modern (in an .org Koutline): https://github.com/minad/org-modern

to no avail.

tl;dr: this lonely SE thread finally solved it:

(set-frame-parameter nil 'internal-border-width 25)

Note this changes all the border-widths around the 'box'.  

So Godspeed any current or future Hyperbole-travellers who may need this, and may all your Koutlines breathe freely.

Best,
C. Mayo

PS - this email led me to the creation of my first (explicit) button! Since I belatedly discovered I'd need to send it via Gnus (a project for another day), I'll just include the link.  But that was fun.  Buttons are fun!  Now I want to figure out how to incorporate them into the hateful Org-Agenda, which is my nemesis.

Have a great weekend, y'all!

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