Mmmmm... in this discussion between Ed Snowden, Gleen Greenwald and
Norm Chomskey, Ed uses the word ephemral many times.
http://livestream.com/azpm/events/4958510
worth watching I think. Two hours though.
Bert
On 25/03/16 20:39, Dean Bogdanovic wrote:
Sue,
IMO, ephemeral has two meaning in i2rs architecture
1. it doesn’t survive reboot
2. you can’t roll back to a previous ephemeral state
Dean
On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Susan Hares <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Deborah:
Section 2 is exactly the place I would put the definition of ephemeral.
Sue
*From:*BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:*Friday, March 25, 2016 9:50 AM
*To:*Susan Hares; 'Fred Baker (fred)'; 'Gunter Van De Velde'
*Cc:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; 'Joel Halpern Direct'
*Subject:*RE: [i2rs] [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another word - (3/24
to 4/3) Call for opinion
Hi all,
As Alia is a co-author, I was assigned as the responsible AD for this document. The document is not with the RFC Editor – it’s
been approved by the IESG with a revised ID needed to address comments raised by the IESG. And so the current discussion.
I had also raised the concern on needing more clarity on the definition of ephemeral during my AD review. The authors added some
information. That clearly was not enough. As the term is used multiple times in the document and is the basis for another draft
on requirements (draft-ietf-i2rs-ephemeral-state) which refers extensively to the architecture document, I agree the authors need
to add more definition. Fred has a good suggestion – the term should be visible in a glossary section early in the document. It’s
not currently included in Section 2’s Terminology – Sue, how about adding it to that section?
I think the authors know what is needed and thank everyone for the discussion
and their time reviewing.
Thanks,
Deborah
*From:*i2rs [mailto:[email protected]]*On Behalf Of*Susan Hares
*Sent:*Friday, March 25, 2016 9:18 AM
*To:*'Fred Baker (fred)' <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; 'Gunter Van De Velde' <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Cc:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>;[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; 'Joel Halpern Direct'
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:*Re: [i2rs] [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another word - (3/24
to 4/3) Call for opinion
Fred:
Thank you for the review, and your comments here. I wished I’d asked about the
word ephemeral earlier.
Sue
*From:*Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:*Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:59 PM
*To:*Gunter Van De Velde
*Cc:*Susan Hares;[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>;[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; Joel Halpern Direct
*Subject:*Re: [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another word - (3/24 to 4/3)
Call for opinion
My comment was a review comment, that the word was being used in a way that wasn't consistent with its dictionary definition
(something with a short lifetime, quite irrespective of birth/death processes) or common usage (at least in my context). At this
point, the draft has been sent to the RFC Editor, so to my mind this discussion is mostly moot. If in your other drafts you are
pointing people to a glossary in the architecture document (which I imagine you already are) and the architecture document
defines the term as you are using it, you have probably done enough.
On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Gunter Van De Velde <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I am ok nowadays with using the terminology “Ephemeral”, although for a non-natve speaker it is non-trivial exotic word,
particular if the intended usage doesn’t 100% reflect the Webster dictionary intended meaning.
It is only about a year ago i started reading up on i2rs and discovered this particular terminology, and at the time a google
search on this terminology was not very conclusive and resulted to some confusion.
I understand very well the confusion at play here from non-native english
speaker perspective.
Adding text to explain the context in which the term Ephemeral is useful/advised. fwiw now that i am used to seeing ‘Ephemeral'
as non-permanent config across reboot, i’m adapted its intended purpose…
Is the goal to explain the intended meaning in each draft/rfc mentioning it?
Be well,
G/
On 24 Mar 2016, at 18:02, Susan Hares <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi all:
<wg chair hat on>
The draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture document has been approved as an RFC. In the review, the OPS-DIR review indicated that
“ephemeral” meant more than “does not survive a reboot”. They have asked the I2RS working group if replacing “ephemeral” with
non-persistent (across power on/off or reboot cycles) would be a better choice.
What do you think – leave at it at “ephemeral” or change to “non-persistent (across power on/off or reboot cycles) ? We will
have a 1 week call on
This would mean every place that “ephemeral” is listed, the authors would replace with “non-persistent”. In the first
instance, we will indicate “non-persistent (across power on/off or reboot cycles).
<wg chair hat off>
As the author, I think we are better to define ephemeral at the beginning as “non-persistent (across power on /off or reboot).
Changing the definition at this point, I suspect will simply confuse people.
Sue Hares
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