I have seen a "?" button, meaning click the question mark and then click anything else in the GUI to get a brief explanation. It would allow someone to ask about a particular widget without waiting. It could also offer a "tour of the activity" video. But maybe that would be offered better on the icon used to launch the activity. I find these sorts of videos to be extremely helpful, as they are like looking over the shoulder of an experienced user.
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Gary C Martin <[email protected]> wrote: > On 13 Dec 2008, at 01:53, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Gary C Martin > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> On 11 Dec 2008, at 00:24, Edward Cherlin wrote: > >> > >>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Reinier Heeres > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I agree that the plotting functionality is not really well exposed, > >>>> although help(index) will show you it's available and help(plot) > >>>> will > >>>> tell you how to use it. Try plot(sin(x),x=0..360) for example. > >>>> I'll work > >>>> on the exposure of plotting in the next release; suggestions on > >>>> how to > >>>> do this exactly would be welcome. > >>> > >>> Just exposing help would go a long way to solving the problem. > >> > >> Help is already exposed in the hover menu for each toolbar icon. Not > >> discoverable enough? > > > > Absolutely not enough. I have to wait for the menu to expand _twice_. > > How was I supposed to discover that? > > You could always read the Calculate wiki page, that's where I first > read about the plot feature ~11 months or so ago. In the perfect > world, every feature you needed at any moment would be clearly > represented in the UI. Different individuals use software in different > ways, it's always very hard to get this right (and it's _never_ > perfect). > > >> Seems Reinier' s Calculate has much more effort/detail > >> put in than any other activity so far. > > > > That doesn't mean that he got it right. I really, really hate delayed > > hover menus, and I hate doubly-delayed hover menus many times more. > > Being cheeky here... so right click and move on with life :-p (and, as > a Mac user, you have no idea how much it pained me when I first saw > the project was going for 2 mouse button use). > > Sometimes I like the whole concept of hover menus, sometimes I think > they sucks. The idea is certainly going to have to be reworked (along > with a large chunk of the existing UI) if we get Sugar to a gen 2 > touch interface. > > > First, because they are inherently not discoverable, and secondly, > > because you are wasting my time, and every other user's time. I reject > > the argument that we are trying to teach children to click icons > > directly, and note that it doesn't even apply in the case of help. > > For me, I always consider the need for help text (and manuals) to be a > level of failure in design. Help texts are a large burden on everyone > (quality, translation, UI space, updates, accuracy), but often are the > cheapest first pass when you realise some feature not discoverable > enough. > > Any concrete UI suggestions for calculate features (or activities** in > general) to be more discoverable for you? You're not allowed to add > this as another potential FLOSS book TODO ;-) Well OK, I guess that > might be a workaround if there's no better UI effort (and teachers > like static books, right?). > > ** my latest casual discovery was that Write has customised its keep > toolbar icon, so if you hover you can choose to keep a copy as RTF, > HTML, or plain text. Well hidden, but this could be extended to 'keep' > to all kind's of interesting places (i.e. push to a Moodle server, an > outbound email, web site upload). Hopefully some Journal 'sharing' > feature will be a generic solution for any activity. > > --Gary > > > My general principle of UI design is, never, ever try to be smarter > > than your user. Not even if you are. Now that I know that help is on > > the menus on double delay, I will almost never use it that way, > > because typing is faster, but I will resent it every time I have to > > type it, because the menu could be faster. > >> --Gary > >> > >>>> The implementation is as basic as it can get: it evaluates an > >>>> expression > >>>> at 100 points between the start and stop range. The internal > >>>> parser is a > >>>> bit slow, but it's pure python and works reasonably well. > >>>> > >>>> With a bit of coding we could surely add some functionality to > >>>> get data > >>>> from Measure in there too. > >>>> > >>>> I am not inclined to add RPN parsing myself, but patches will of > >>>> course > >>>> be considered. > >>> > >>> Would you look at http://sourceforge.net/projects/calcrpnpy/ and > >>> tell > >>> me what you need done to it? > >>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Reinier > >>>> > >>>> Edward Cherlin wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 11:18 AM, Gary C Martin < > [email protected] > >>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 18:41, Walter Bender wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I haven't looked at it in a while, but what plotting engine is > >>>>>>> built > >>>>>>> inside of the Calculator Activity? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -walter > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I think Reinier wrote his own little svg plot generator class > >>>>>> called > >>>>>> plotlib.py. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --Gary > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I didn't know about the plotting capability, which will have > >>>>> endless > >>>>> uses. It is certainly not discoverable. > >>>>> > >>>>> Can we feed a segment of a data stream from Measure to Calculate > >>>>> as a > >>>>> named function? > >>>>> > >>>>> Why don't we put something like plot(f(x),x=min..max) on the > >>>>> toolbar? > >>>>> Can we provide hints about the functions and syntax anywhere in > >>>>> the > >>>>> UI? Is there a way to recall and edit an input line? Are there > >>>>> other > >>>>> functions not exposed in the UI? > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a fairly old book called Numerical Analysis on the Pocket > >>>>> Calculator, which explains how to do all sorts of things that you > >>>>> might not expect on even the simplest 4- and 5-function devices, > >>>>> and > >>>>> works on up through the sort of algebraic calculator we have > >>>>> here to > >>>>> the programmable calculator. Our users will need something like > >>>>> this, > >>>>> to take maximum advantage of the seemingly limited capabilities > >>>>> we are > >>>>> offering them. > >>>>> > >>>>> And can we have an RPN mode? I can't tell you how much most real > >>>>> engineers hate parentheses. We are not doing children any favors > >>>>> by > >>>>> hiding the more advanced tools. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Reinier Heeres > >>>> Waalstraat 17 > >>>> 2515 XK Den Haag > >>>> The Netherlands > >>>> > >>>> Tel: +31 6 10852639 > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Silent Thunder (默雷/ > >>> धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ > >>> دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > >>> And Children are my nation. > >>> The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > >>> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Silent Thunder (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/ > > دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) is my name > > And Children are my nation. > > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, The Truth my destination. > > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mokurai > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [email protected] > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- "Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it." -- Barack Obama
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