@g: My favorite: "You don't know something until you know it in more than three ways." -- Marvin Minsky
On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 10:09 AM, gerry_lowry (alliston ontario canada) <[email protected]> wrote: > k: =. kirby urner (partial quotes) > g: =. gerry lowry (reponses to k) > > k: To say "your average student" subtracts info from my "pre-teen" as at > least I was giving an age bracket. > > g: I'm referring to "average students" of any age. Individual nurtured > growth is relevant to me. > Age is merely a less relevant factor. > > k: "Given my premise that the XO, because of design and appearance, is > really designed for > pre secondary school aged kids (more for elementary) > > g: like this one: http://www.olpcnews.com/images/cherlin-xo.jpg > B-) > > Sadly, I've not had the opportunity to experience an XO-1 personally and > tactiley. > Hence, I'm hopeful that the OLPC XO-1 will be useful to any person > fortunate enough to have one. > > k: I am seeing the proposal to have J on the XO as a commitment to writing > curriculum for the J language for pre-teens. > > g: currucula for all ages and abilities could be written for J on the XO. > J's IDE "Studio, Labs..." capability facilitates electronic curricula for > diverse age groups, et cetera. > This in turn could substantially diminish need for paper based curricula. > > k: I'm a big believer in hybrid environments meaning we don't standardize on > any one language or environment, > aren't in any way trying to get everyone on the same page. No "national > curriculum" (blech), > no lock-stepping with ETS, a strategy that has destroyed a generation > already, > so no need to keep repeating that same mistake over and over. > > g: I'm reminded of the computing world's oft repeated mantra: > "If your only tool is a hammer, then all of your problems will tend to > look like nails". > Also, the Perl community's TIMTOWTDI (There IS More Than One Way To Do > It). > > In my own words, many tools make fine minds. Ken Iverson referred to > "Notation as a tool of thought" * > in his 1979 Turing award essay wherein Ken quoted A. N. Whitehead: > "By relieving the brain of all unnecessary work, a good notation > sets it free to concentrate > on more advanced problems, and in effect increases the mental power > of the race". > > *ACM SIGAPL APL Quote Quad, Volume 35 , Issue 1-2 (March, > June 2007) > In honor of Kenneth E. Iverson; Pages: 2 - 31; > ISSN:0163-6006 > > Communications of the ACM; Volume 23 , Issue 8 (August > 1980) table of contents > Pages: 444 - 465; ISSN:0001-0782 > > ACM Turing award lectures book contents, Page: 1979; Year of > Publication: 2007 > ISBN:0-201-0779X-X > > So I'm not implying "J way or no way". In fact, I'm very strongly opposed > to such a restrictive idea. > Rather, I'm simply saying J and the J IDE offer certain advantages for > their inclusion in the > "ships with installed" list for the OLPC XO-1. Of course, I'm powerless > to do more than suggest this. > I'd also like to see C++, FORTH, LISP, LOGO, Pascal, and PROLOG as part of > the "ships with installed" > list as well as a version of MASM since the OLPC XO-1 CPU is programable > with x86 assembly language. > > k: I believe in competing models, different states (nations, corporations) > trying different approaches. > > g: I prefer co-operating models wherein we learn from each others different > approaches with > the goal of improving the learner's environment and positively affective > the learner's success potential. > > k: For marketing purposes, we intimate that if your high school doesn't > teach you any SQL, you > should be concerned, very concerned > > g: Perhaps one should be even more concerned if there's too much emphasis on > SQL ... > there are other potentially better ways to stream and process data than > via the relational > database model. Not every data mapping fits conveniently into tuples; > otherwise, > normalization might be more normal. > > k: ... calling for a nationalized curriculum with some top-down "advisory > board" (guffaw). > > g: I think I'm agreeing with kirby here. National goals are good things, > e.g., > the spirit of the "No child left behind" act. ** > > ** http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html > > The problem is that nationalized curricula can too swiftly become a > political vehicle > for denial of services and thus restricting otherwise possible growth. A > not so > abstract example is the absense in many locales of effective sex education > and > the corresponding number of illegitimate enfants born because of ignorance > induced pregnancies caused by myths such as "You can't get pregnant the > first > time you have sexual intercourse". > > k: prodigies fall through the cracks way too often > > g: agreed. apparently the world's smartest person is employed as a > bartender. > it pains me when imho a good mind goes to waste. > > at the same time, many minds could still be more productive and more > rounded in humanistic > and scientific ways with a better educational system ... too often some > educational systems > want to separate carpenters from financial wizards. This practice forgets > the fact that > many of us are late bloomers and also that in the care of different > gardeners, we might > blossom in unforeseen ways. > > k: Great song about that guy [Srinivasa Ramanujan] > http://www.archive.org/details/Ramanujan > > g: thanks!!! > > k: http://worldgame.blogspot.com/search?q=Ramanujan > > > g: more thanks!!! Fuller would have liked to have seen an experiment where > 100 000 persons > were paid NOT to work. He felt one of them would be likely to make a > grand contribution > to society that would justify the experiment. I like to think Fuller > almost correct; imho, > I think that collectively, they sum of the participants' contributions > would justify the experiment. > > While we will not likely see such an experiment, it's nevertheless > possible that > equivalent societal benefits might occur if schemes (sic) like OLPC become > successes. > > k: anyone not being taught any SQL in high school would count as a member of > an oppressed group > > g: but nowhere nearly as oppressed as the children who die of hunger related > diseases, > one every few seconds. > > k: human resources (matching the right folks to the right positions). > > g: I've been around since before the term "human resources" was introduced > AFAIK; > when first introduced, the emphasis was on "human"; in the last few > decades, the > emphasis has shifted from "human" to "resources" and not in a positive way. > i.e., humans are now seen as resources, specifically as things rather than > as people. > > Regards, > Gerry > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [email protected] > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
