David, Do you have any good links for those of us just starting? Links that would answer how to install python, how to interface with sugar from a different platform (XP, Mac), sugar specific issues in developing activities in python?
-Kathy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Farning Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:22 PM To: Kathy Pusztavari Cc: iaep Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kathy Pusztavari <[email protected]> wrote: > I'll have to admit I don't have much right to request, complain, or > even discuss. If I don't get off my butt and program something myself > then I'm part of the problem. > > But I'll tell you, it is difficult to start in this programming > environment where the learning curve is extremely steep (coming from > Oracle and PL/SQL stored procedures). I'm still trying to figure out > WHERE to start playing with Python let alone how. Kathy, Developer documentation is currently a huge hole for Sugar Labs. So, if you are interested in contributing that would be a great place to start. david > -Kathy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Walter Bender > Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:26 AM > To: Bill Kerr > Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel > Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not > > One of the real pleasures of this adventure we are on is that there > has been thoughtful criticism of ideas. I cannot get away with vague > or sloppy thinking. > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Bill Kerr <[email protected]> wrote: >> I'm not sure what is meant by a "big tent" >> >> Why do some people want a big tent for learning theory but not a big >> tent which accepts both FOSS and proprietary software? Phrasing it >> that way is intended to encourage people to think about what sort of >> thing is learning and hopefully will not be interpreted as just being >> provocative for its own sake. > > FOSS is a theory of learning. We don't need to reach consensus about > either learning theory or FOSS, but to be members of this community, > we must agree that we can progress from critique to making positive changes. > >> you can have a big tent where people don't discuss learning theory >> because it's too hard to reach agreement >> >> you can have a big tent where people passionately argue about >> learning theory but actually listen to what each is saying and argue >> rationally >> >> when I look at minsky's theory of mind I see that he supports >> multiple models of thinking but also argues against models of >> thinking that he thinks are incorrect or which emphasise only one way >> of doing things, eg. although he helped create connectionism he now >> thinks it has too much influence > > As Martin points out, Sugar Labs is building tools. But we are not > agnostic about how they are used. We are deliberately building > affordances into our tools to encourage and promote learning > activities that are "C" in their nature, because we believe that that > is the principle means by which learners will reach a level of fluency > as described by Alan. But the tools can be used in support of other > learning theories and, to rephrase Minsky, "if you don't learn something more than one way, you don't learn it." > >> that suggests another version of a big tent which I favour - cherry >> picking the best parts out of different learning theories / >> activities based on criteria (not stated here) that are substantial > > I wear an engineer's hat: "What is the best solution I can build > today?" not a scientist's hat: "What is the best possible solution?" > Ergo, +1 for cherry picking. > >> >> I don't believe that thinking people are agnostic about how people >> learn >> >> it seems to me that alan kay has presented a possibly strategic view >> of progress on these questions (that learning about bricks will not >> automatically lead to building arches, that we need more than just >> focusing on building blocks) - but that for various reasons we are >> not in a position to implement the learning materials based on that >> view in practice in the activities >> >> for me to sit in the big tent holding a strategic view feels >> different to "too hard basket", agnosticism or a tower of babble - >> teaching with an underlying strategic view is very different to just >> going along with the tide > > The analogy to "big tent" perhaps needs more of an explanation for > those not living day-to-day in earshot of the US political dialog. > Republican President Ronald Reagan referred to his party as a big tent > in the days of his popular majority. The current party is being > accused of (or admired for) being more fundamentalist in its ideology; > this "either your are with us or against us" approach has arguably > resulted in a greatly contracted constituency: there are more people > who identify themselves as Independents than as Republicans. As a > result, it is being asserted both from within and without that the > Republicans have excluded themselves from the debate. > > We must engage teachers and learners even if we do not have consensus > on all aspects of learning theories, FOSS, or Sugar. Without the > engagement, we don't grow. Even more important, without the engagement, we don't learn. > That doesn't mean we don't have opinions or direction. > >> >> that would mean work to understand and implement that strategic view >> but also accept that we are not there yet (it will take some time) >> and so it is perfectably understandable and desirable that people >> will use and develop whatever is at hand or which they think >> important to develop - no one can stop that anyway accept by >> successful arguing someone out of a POV > > We have a long ways to go and we need to keep debating as we go. But > also we need to continue "doing". And always be asking "Are there > other ways to approach this?" and "How might we make this better?" > >> Does the "big tent" phrase add clarity to this conversation? >> > > Perhaps not. But the discussion adds clarity to the overall mission of > Sugar Labs. > > -walter > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > > _______________________________________________ > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) > [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep > _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) [email protected] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
