What exactly would "move" mean in a computer memory context? We move physical objects: they cease to occupy one space and instead occupy another. But a computer memory holds information. You can no more move data in memory from one place to another than you can move knowledge from my head to yours. You get a copy; I still have the original. I suppose for some security purpose a machine might implement "copy and clear": kind of like an MVC plus an XC on the source location. You could argue that was a move.
You can "move" a disk file in that the space it formerly occupied becomes unallocated, just like a shelf becomes free if you move a stack of books from one shelf to another. IEHMOVE moves datasets. Another word -- kind of COBOL related -- that our industry uses with a meaning different from English is SORT. In English "sort" means to put into appropriate sub-groups: sort the forks and spoons into their drawers. What we mean by SORT in English is order: have the children line up ordered by height; order the files alphabetically. Charles -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 11:21 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: COBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? The only "destructive move" I have been able to find (i.e, a real move, not a copy) based on one real response, is in C (and derivatives) that is not really what we are talking about. It's move of a "change the pointer to the variable and drop the original storage" type of thing. And, it's a function, not a verb. And, it relates more to what happens to intermediate fields as they are used by C and not programmer variables. Bob, I understand your confusion, because I agree with you. Such a language does not really exist. The excuse of "mv" vs. "cp" in linux is not a valid example as those are file management commands, not data manipulation verbs as used in programming languages. And, to get back to the original statement by someone that Cobol is not English because of the use of MOVE instead of COPY is just silly. Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/18/20 10:51 AM: > You may have done so - by now I don't remember who said what first :) - but I > was referring to Mr Crayford's post below. As I understood them, Tony > Thigpen wrote that a MOVE is actually a copy, and Mr Crayford disagreed. I'm > confused; is there any computer language in which the verb MOVE exists and > doesn't actually mean COPY? > > ...or SET, as you suggest. Yes, I like SET better. > > --- > Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 > > /* In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark > on the things you have long taken for granted. -Bertrand Russell (1872-1970) > */ > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:42 > > I referred to this since someone said that COBOL is English like. As such > the language is wrong because it does not describe correctly in English > what happens. COPY, REPLICATE, PROPAGATE would all be more precise English. > > IDEAL(CA/Broadcom) has MOVE and SET. They do the same thing. Which do you > prefer: > > MOVE A TO B or > SET B = A ? > > --- On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob Bridges <[email protected]> wrote: >> Am I missing something obvious, here? In what computer language(s) is a >> move not actually a copy? And how? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: David Crayford >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 00:53 >> >> I beg to differ! For the programming languages I code in use there is a >> huge difference between copy and move semantics. >> >> --- On 2020-07-17 11:12 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote: >>> From the start, MOVE in the programming world has been equated to what >>> you are calling a COPY. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
