An Abacus is a computer. The beads are moved. On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 08:23 Charles Mills <[email protected]> wrote:
> What exactly would "move" mean in a computer memory context? We move > physical objects: they cease to occupy one space and instead occupy > another. But a computer memory holds information. You can no more move data > in memory from one place to another than you can move knowledge from my > head to yours. You get a copy; I still have the original. I suppose for > some security purpose a machine might implement "copy and clear": kind of > like an MVC plus an XC on the source location. You could argue that was a > move. > > You can "move" a disk file in that the space it formerly occupied becomes > unallocated, just like a shelf becomes free if you move a stack of books > from one shelf to another. IEHMOVE moves datasets. > > Another word -- kind of COBOL related -- that our industry uses with a > meaning different from English is SORT. In English "sort" means to put into > appropriate sub-groups: sort the forks and spoons into their drawers. What > we mean by SORT in English is order: have the children line up ordered by > height; order the files alphabetically. > > Charles > > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 11:21 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: COBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > The only "destructive move" I have been able to find (i.e, a real move, > not a copy) based on one real response, is in C (and derivatives) that > is not really what we are talking about. > > It's move of a "change the pointer to the variable and drop the original > storage" type of thing. And, it's a function, not a verb. And, it > relates more to what happens to intermediate fields as they are used by > C and not programmer variables. > > Bob, I understand your confusion, because I agree with you. Such a > language does not really exist. The excuse of "mv" vs. "cp" in linux is > not a valid example as those are file management commands, not data > manipulation verbs as used in programming languages. > > And, to get back to the original statement by someone that Cobol is not > English because of the use of MOVE instead of COPY is just silly. > > Tony Thigpen > > Bob Bridges wrote on 7/18/20 10:51 AM: > > You may have done so - by now I don't remember who said what first :) - > but I was referring to Mr Crayford's post below. As I understood them, > Tony Thigpen wrote that a MOVE is actually a copy, and Mr Crayford > disagreed. I'm confused; is there any computer language in which the verb > MOVE exists and doesn't actually mean COPY? > > > > ...or SET, as you suggest. Yes, I like SET better. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question > mark on the things you have long taken for granted. -Bertrand Russell > (1872-1970) */ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Wayne Bickerdike > > Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2020 04:42 > > > > I referred to this since someone said that COBOL is English like. As such > > the language is wrong because it does not describe correctly in English > > what happens. COPY, REPLICATE, PROPAGATE would all be more precise > English. > > > > IDEAL(CA/Broadcom) has MOVE and SET. They do the same thing. Which do > you > > prefer: > > > > MOVE A TO B or > > SET B = A ? > > > > --- On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 4:30 PM Bob Bridges <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Am I missing something obvious, here? In what computer language(s) is a > >> move not actually a copy? And how? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: David Crayford > >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 00:53 > >> > >> I beg to differ! For the programming languages I code in use there is a > >> huge difference between copy and move semantics. > >> > >> --- On 2020-07-17 11:12 AM, Tony Thigpen wrote: > >>> From the start, MOVE in the programming world has been equated to what > >>> you are calling a COPY. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
