When did custompack stop having SMP steps? Yes, COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of CM Poncelet <ponce...@bcs.org.uk> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 7:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies "I don't like it when IBM takes away tools" - and IBM stopped publishing system control block DSECTs with ESA, thereby preventing sysprogs from modifying its OSes (or so it thought.) Next step (perhaps in 10+ years' time) will be to withdraw support of native SMP/E (and thus of CBPDO/CBIPO installs) and enforce using custompac (or custompak, whatever it is now called) instead. That would be a "progressive and continual stultification ofmainframe systems programming" and of IBM's progressively taking over full control of how customers' systems are installed, managed and maintained - as is already done by Micro$oft. How "COND=" works is trivial and needs no 'help' from "IF/THEN" statements. "COND=" just means "execute the step *unless* any of the COND= parms is true." Anyone who has difficulty understanding even *that* should not be working with mainframes. Chris Poncelet (r) On 21/05/2021 23:02, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> ESA's OCO? > What's that in reference to? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of > CM Poncelet <ponce...@bcs.org.uk> > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 4:22 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS > Technologies > > ESA's OCO? > > On 20/05/2021 08:43, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> Progress is also not made by pretending that a blunt tool is sharp just >> because you're used to it. COND= is a blunt tool, and IF/THEN puts a bandage >> over some, but not all, of its ugliness. >> >> What's wrong with taking advantage of skeletons and such? Yes, I have been >> known to hand craft an SMP/E job when the templates didn't suit my needs, >> but what's wrong with taking advantage of them when it saves me time? >> >> I don't like it when IBM takes away tools, but that's not the same as >> providing new tools that I can ignore when they don't suit the task at hand. >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of >> CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:50 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >> Technologies >> >> Again and with all due respect, progress is made not by blunting the >> tool but by sharpening the user. >> >> "IF/THEN" does not handle all boolean AND/OR/NAND/XOR and >> steps-not-executed conditions. >> >> Let not those who cannot master playing the violin demand that the >> violin be made more easy, but let them try playing the banjo instead. >> >> And SMP/E? In the 1980's it was 'recommended' to use its dialogs. In the >> late 90's, its Custom-Pak etc. became 'de rigueur' and 'de facto'. And >> yet I continued to use only native SMP/E - and did so daily to track >> down and fix PTFEs etc. etc. >> >> Who gains from this progressive and continual stultification of >> mainframe systems programming? Is it not Windows for mainframes? >> >> As they say, "Use it or lose it." >> >> Cheers, Chris Poncelet (r) >> >> >> >> On 19/05/2021 01:55, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote: >>> Once I learned of the IF/THEN statements for >>> JCL I never used COND= again. IF/THEN is much >>> easier to use and to explain to new people. >>> I have seen many people code COND statements >>> incorrectly because they did not acually >>> understand how they worked. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of >>> CM Poncelet >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 8:19 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>> >>> With all due respect, anyone who has difficulty coding JCL COND= >>> statements should consider *not* working with IBM mainframe systems. >>> >>> All boolean conditional execution steps can be handled using only COND= >>> statements. I submitted a paper on this & it was published in >>> "Computing" in 1989. I would but cannot attach it, as uploading PDF >>> files to this discussion list is not permitted. >>> >>> No sysprog worth his salt has ever had a problem with coding JCL COND= >>> statements. >>> >>> Likewise IF/THEN statements belong in "JCL for dummies" - as do symbols >>> in JCL and SYSIN. Ditto IF/THEN <etc.> in assembler. >>> >>> Chris Poncelet (r) >>> >>> >>> . >>> On 18/05/2021 14:02, Charles Mills wrote: >>>> Yeah, and IF/THEN is slightly better than COND= >>>> >>>> Also symbols in SYSIN data. >>>> >>>> Charles >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >>>> Behalf Of Steve Horein >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:35 AM >>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>> >>>> I would argue JCL got better when symbols were allowed! :-) >>>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.4.0?topic=es-symlist-parameter >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:46 PM Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Steve, let me wade in here and suggest some big picture. I think SHARE and >>>>> such is great for the details. >>>>> >>>>> What has changed since 2001? An idiosyncratic, IMHO list: >>>>> >>>>> - In 2001 SNA was yielding to TCP/IP. That transition has continued. An >>>>> awful lot of mainframe connectivity is now TCP/IP. Lots and lots of >>>>> Internet connectivity to the mainframe. >>>>> - Security is huge. Encryption is hot. Zero Trust is the buzzword of the >>>>> month. >>>>> - Everything is of course bigger. Z hardware goes up to what? 4TB real? >>>>> Someone will correct me if that is wrong. >>>>> - Tape drives have pretty much gone away. They live on as virtual, >>>>> emulated-on-DASD tape drives. >>>>> - The Cloud. Read any airline magazine for the latest. >>>>> - Remember VM? It was pretty moribund in 2001. It has found new life >>>>> hosting thousands of Linux instances. Yes, Linux running like a champ on Z >>>>> hardware. Mainframe Linux is huge. You can run Linux in a region of MVS in >>>>> a "container." >>>>> - Speaking of which, there is a Z box that will not IPL z/OS! It is called >>>>> Linux One. It's a mainframe with a bit hobbled somewhere such that >>>>> mainframe operating systems will not IPL, only Linux. >>>>> - Lots of new features in core MVS but you would fully recognize the >>>>> environment. If you sit down at a TSO/ISPF session it will seem like >>>>> nothing has changed. JCL has not gotten any better (or any worse, >>>>> thankfully). >>>>> - Remember the issue of "above the (24-bit) line"? It is still there, but >>>>> pretty much in the background. The new thing is data and execution "above >>>>> the (2GB/31-bit) bar." Lots of software products are exploiting data above >>>>> 2GB, and code can even run there, with lots of limitations. AMODE/RMODE >>>>> 64. >>>>> - IBM JES3 is dead. Long live Phoenix JES3 plus. IBM ditched JES3, and >>>>> Phoenix picked it up. >>>>> - More emphasis on high level languages. Hardware design is being driven >>>>> by the Java folks and the compiler folks. Lots of new hardware >>>>> instructions. Hardware cycle times are not getting any faster, but >>>>> instructions do more per cycle. Caching getting more sophisticated and >>>>> more >>>>> critical. The concept of "how long does an LR take" has totally >>>>> disappeared. It is a question with no answer other than "it depends." >>>>> >>>>> Anyone else want to weigh in? >>>>> >>>>> Charles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >>>>> Behalf Of Gibney, Dave >>>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 6:58 PM >>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>> Subject: Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>> >>>>> I would suggest SHARE presentations and perhaps Marna Walle's migration >>>>> guides >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Estle >>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 6:42 PM >>>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>>> Subject: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello Everyone in Mainframe Land, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been out of the mainframe world since about 2001, but spent the >>>>> prior >>>>>> 20 years immersed in that world working with everything from MVS/370 to >>>>>> MVS/ESA and VM, performance and capacity planning disciplines across a >>>>>> variety of situations in the IT Services and consulting spaces. I, am, >>>>> now as a >>>>>> "IT Infrastructure Engineer- IBM z/OS Mainframe Engineer" after nearly 20 >>>>>> years of other activities (Project Mgmt, entrepreneur, etc) am about to >>>>>> potentially come back into a new mainframe role and I need to catch up as >>>>>> quickly as possible. Any suggestions on ways to fill in the gaps for >>>>> ZOS, ZVM, >>>>>> hardware, performance, etc? Bottom line I'm looking for that gap >>>>> education >>>>>> to as quickly as possible get up to speed with changes in platforms >>>>> since 2001. >>>>>> If prefer to call - all my info is below. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Steve Estle >>>>>> 303-604-0925 >>>>>> sest...@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> . >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> . >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > . > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
