Your "Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that it requires using the brain as well as the fingers." is a fantasy that has no rational connection to what I wrote. Sean Spicer would be proud of you.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 11:30 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies As in "Thank you for putting words in my mouth" and "Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that itrequires using the brain as well as the fingers. OK, got it. Thanks for explaining?" - or what other "I'd rather speak for myself. Alternative facts?" On 22/05/2021 04:04, Seymour J Metz wrote: > Thank you for putting words in my mouth. However, I'd rather speak for > myself. Alternative facts? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 10:43 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS > Technologies > > A well-known Bank I was working at, as a systems programming consultant > (in '99,) asked me to install custompac. So I did that and checked it > out. It was so full of errors, including that the user enter the MCAT > password and the hlq of PARMLIB (and of whatever else,) for it to > function, never mind its then allocating dozens of CYLs and (if memory > serves) 100's of directory blocks to SAMPLIB which, after the install, > contained no more than a dozen or so of members - and then > underestimated the DASD space and directory blocks required for SMPPTFIN > and whatever the DLIB/TLIB loadlibs were, causing S*37 abends when it > was executed. I pointed this out to the Bank and suggested that I write > my own version of it. They gave me the go-ahead. My version then did > everything custompac was supposed to do, including updating all its > "logs" and datasets etc. and being 100% compatible with custompac - but > requiring only two inputs from the user, with no MCAT password or > PARMLIB etc. hlqs needed - and it genned all the correct SMP/E JCL to > install/update the Bank's products. > > Later on, IBM kept on asking me to explain to them - and for weeks - how > I had 'fixed' their custompac, so they could tell their developers in > Canada what to do. > > Yes, and COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural in that it > requires using the brain as well as the fingers. OK, got it. Thanks for > explaining. > > Cheers, Chris Poncelet (r) > > > > On 22/05/2021 01:23, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> When did custompack stop having SMP steps? >> >> Yes, COND is easy to understand; it's also unnatural. >> >> >> -- >> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of >> CM Poncelet <ponce...@bcs.org.uk> >> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 7:01 PM >> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >> Technologies >> >> "I don't like it when IBM takes away tools" - and IBM stopped publishing >> system control block DSECTs with ESA, thereby preventing sysprogs from >> modifying its OSes (or so it thought.) >> >> Next step (perhaps in 10+ years' time) will be to withdraw support of >> native SMP/E (and thus of CBPDO/CBIPO installs) and enforce using >> custompac (or custompak, whatever it is now called) instead. That would >> be a "progressive and continual stultification ofmainframe systems >> programming" and of IBM's progressively taking over full control of how >> customers' systems are installed, managed and maintained - as is already >> done by Micro$oft. >> >> How "COND=" works is trivial and needs no 'help' from "IF/THEN" >> statements. "COND=" just means "execute the step *unless* any of the >> COND= parms is true." Anyone who has difficulty understanding even >> *that* should not be working with mainframes. >> >> Chris Poncelet (r) >> >> >> >> On 21/05/2021 23:02, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> ESA's OCO? >>> What's that in reference to? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>> >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of >>> CM Poncelet <ponce...@bcs.org.uk> >>> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 4:22 PM >>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >>> Technologies >>> >>> ESA's OCO? >>> >>> On 20/05/2021 08:43, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> Progress is also not made by pretending that a blunt tool is sharp just >>>> because you're used to it. COND= is a blunt tool, and IF/THEN puts a >>>> bandage over some, but not all, of its ugliness. >>>> >>>> What's wrong with taking advantage of skeletons and such? Yes, I have been >>>> known to hand craft an SMP/E job when the templates didn't suit my needs, >>>> but what's wrong with taking advantage of them when it saves me time? >>>> >>>> I don't like it when IBM takes away tools, but that's not the same as >>>> providing new tools that I can ignore when they don't suit the task at >>>> hand. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf >>>> of CM Poncelet [ponce...@bcs.org.uk] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2021 9:50 PM >>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>> Subject: Re: JCL COND vs IF/THEN - Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS >>>> Technologies >>>> >>>> Again and with all due respect, progress is made not by blunting the >>>> tool but by sharpening the user. >>>> >>>> "IF/THEN" does not handle all boolean AND/OR/NAND/XOR and >>>> steps-not-executed conditions. >>>> >>>> Let not those who cannot master playing the violin demand that the >>>> violin be made more easy, but let them try playing the banjo instead. >>>> >>>> And SMP/E? In the 1980's it was 'recommended' to use its dialogs. In the >>>> late 90's, its Custom-Pak etc. became 'de rigueur' and 'de facto'. And >>>> yet I continued to use only native SMP/E - and did so daily to track >>>> down and fix PTFEs etc. etc. >>>> >>>> Who gains from this progressive and continual stultification of >>>> mainframe systems programming? Is it not Windows for mainframes? >>>> >>>> As they say, "Use it or lose it." >>>> >>>> Cheers, Chris Poncelet (r) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19/05/2021 01:55, Nash, Jonathan S. wrote: >>>>> Once I learned of the IF/THEN statements for >>>>> JCL I never used COND= again. IF/THEN is much >>>>> easier to use and to explain to new people. >>>>> I have seen many people code COND statements >>>>> incorrectly because they did not acually >>>>> understand how they worked. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf >>>>> Of CM Poncelet >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 8:19 PM >>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>> >>>>> With all due respect, anyone who has difficulty coding JCL COND= >>>>> statements should consider *not* working with IBM mainframe systems. >>>>> >>>>> All boolean conditional execution steps can be handled using only COND= >>>>> statements. I submitted a paper on this & it was published in >>>>> "Computing" in 1989. I would but cannot attach it, as uploading PDF >>>>> files to this discussion list is not permitted. >>>>> >>>>> No sysprog worth his salt has ever had a problem with coding JCL COND= >>>>> statements. >>>>> >>>>> Likewise IF/THEN statements belong in "JCL for dummies" - as do symbols >>>>> in JCL and SYSIN. Ditto IF/THEN <etc.> in assembler. >>>>> >>>>> Chris Poncelet (r) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> On 18/05/2021 14:02, Charles Mills wrote: >>>>>> Yeah, and IF/THEN is slightly better than COND= >>>>>> >>>>>> Also symbols in SYSIN data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Charles >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Horein >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2021 5:35 AM >>>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>>> Subject: Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>>> >>>>>> I would argue JCL got better when symbols were allowed! :-) >>>>>> https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos/2.4.0?topic=es-symlist-parameter >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 10:46 PM Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve, let me wade in here and suggest some big picture. I think SHARE >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> such is great for the details. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What has changed since 2001? An idiosyncratic, IMHO list: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - In 2001 SNA was yielding to TCP/IP. That transition has continued. An >>>>>>> awful lot of mainframe connectivity is now TCP/IP. Lots and lots of >>>>>>> Internet connectivity to the mainframe. >>>>>>> - Security is huge. Encryption is hot. Zero Trust is the buzzword of the >>>>>>> month. >>>>>>> - Everything is of course bigger. Z hardware goes up to what? 4TB real? >>>>>>> Someone will correct me if that is wrong. >>>>>>> - Tape drives have pretty much gone away. They live on as virtual, >>>>>>> emulated-on-DASD tape drives. >>>>>>> - The Cloud. Read any airline magazine for the latest. >>>>>>> - Remember VM? It was pretty moribund in 2001. It has found new life >>>>>>> hosting thousands of Linux instances. Yes, Linux running like a champ >>>>>>> on Z >>>>>>> hardware. Mainframe Linux is huge. You can run Linux in a region of MVS >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> a "container." >>>>>>> - Speaking of which, there is a Z box that will not IPL z/OS! It is >>>>>>> called >>>>>>> Linux One. It's a mainframe with a bit hobbled somewhere such that >>>>>>> mainframe operating systems will not IPL, only Linux. >>>>>>> - Lots of new features in core MVS but you would fully recognize the >>>>>>> environment. If you sit down at a TSO/ISPF session it will seem like >>>>>>> nothing has changed. JCL has not gotten any better (or any worse, >>>>>>> thankfully). >>>>>>> - Remember the issue of "above the (24-bit) line"? It is still there, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> pretty much in the background. The new thing is data and execution >>>>>>> "above >>>>>>> the (2GB/31-bit) bar." Lots of software products are exploiting data >>>>>>> above >>>>>>> 2GB, and code can even run there, with lots of limitations. AMODE/RMODE >>>>>>> 64. >>>>>>> - IBM JES3 is dead. Long live Phoenix JES3 plus. IBM ditched JES3, and >>>>>>> Phoenix picked it up. >>>>>>> - More emphasis on high level languages. Hardware design is being driven >>>>>>> by the Java folks and the compiler folks. Lots of new hardware >>>>>>> instructions. Hardware cycle times are not getting any faster, but >>>>>>> instructions do more per cycle. Caching getting more sophisticated and >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> critical. The concept of "how long does an LR take" has totally >>>>>>> disappeared. It is a question with no answer other than "it depends." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyone else want to weigh in? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Gibney, Dave >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 6:58 PM >>>>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would suggest SHARE presentations and perhaps Marna Walle's migration >>>>>>> guides >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Steve Estle >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2021 6:42 PM >>>>>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>>>>>>> Subject: Best catch up resources for MVS / ZOS Technologies >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello Everyone in Mainframe Land, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've been out of the mainframe world since about 2001, but spent the >>>>>>> prior >>>>>>>> 20 years immersed in that world working with everything from MVS/370 to >>>>>>>> MVS/ESA and VM, performance and capacity planning disciplines across a >>>>>>>> variety of situations in the IT Services and consulting spaces. I, am, >>>>>>> now as a >>>>>>>> "IT Infrastructure Engineer- IBM z/OS Mainframe Engineer" after nearly >>>>>>>> 20 >>>>>>>> years of other activities (Project Mgmt, entrepreneur, etc) am about to >>>>>>>> potentially come back into a new mainframe role and I need to catch up >>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>> quickly as possible. Any suggestions on ways to fill in the gaps for >>>>>>> ZOS, ZVM, >>>>>>>> hardware, performance, etc? Bottom line I'm looking for that gap >>>>>>> education >>>>>>>> to as quickly as possible get up to speed with changes in platforms >>>>>>> since 2001. >>>>>>>> If prefer to call - all my info is below. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Steve Estle >>>>>>>> 303-604-0925 >>>>>>>> sest...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> . >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> . >>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> . >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > . > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
