Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:15 AM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote:
Yeah, and the dot com crash never happened.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...
Again, cash flow can be positive OR NEGATIVE. Profits are what drives stock prices,
executive compensation, and investment. Revenue drives SOME stocks, mostly newer ones,
who invest big for future profits. Which generates negative cash flow until they reach
profitability stage and growth (and investment) begins to slow. Executive compensation
has almost nothing to do with corporate profitability. In fact many companies pay
executives in stock options not cash. You really don’t know what you’re talking about.
The S&P 500 index is a factor of profits times a multiple. Current 2022 estimate of
S&P 500 profits is estimated at $235 and approximately a 22 multiple. Giving the
index a 5170 valuation right around where most banks and investment houses project the
index will finish in 22.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 9:50 PM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote:
That's a non sequitur. You've just proven my point.
Actions taken to improve profits take a long time to have the desired effect.
Stock prices are driven by what happens in the near term. That's cash flow, not
profits.
Most top level executives seek to maximize their compensation, even if that is
at the expense of the long term profitability of their company.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:45 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...
Then there was no need for the 1967 age discrimination law! LOL I’m not
confusing anything. This article is a continuation of the age discrimination
lawsuit filed by IBM employees in 2018. Most companies do it to maximize
profits since profits make the stock price go up and the executives and
shareholders benefit when profits go up. Cash flow can be positive or negative.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:34 AM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote:
You're confusing cash flow with profits. Unless there are external constraints,
wages don't increase by themselves. The natural behavior in capitalism is to
not give raises unless it would cost you more for the employee to leave..
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...
Profits are maximized by getting rid of the older, higher cost (wages & health
care) employees and hiring younger lower cost ones. Pretty standard capitalism.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:05 AM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote:
No, capitalism is designed to maximize profits. Out of control speculation has
shifted the emphasis to cash flow, which would have appalled Adam Smith.
What happens in a rational market is that employees don't give raises unless
there is a labor shortage, and that employers try to keep productive workers.
This is especially true when they've spent a lot of money on training.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...
I didn’t say YOU pushed them out the door. The cycle of replacing higher priced
workers with lower cost ones always happens. Exactly what capitalism is
designed to do.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:55 AM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote:
When I was young, I worked with older employees; I did not push them out the
door. Further, there are legal limits on age discrimination. What we are seeing
is the triumph of cash flow over profits, and it is not what capitalism does in
a rational environment, any more than the gulag is what socialism does.
In fact, there have been times and places where capitalism discriminated
against younger workers and, as above, that was not intrinsic to capitalism.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of
Bill Johnson [[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Holy Moly ...
When we were young, we helped usher out older workers & we didn’t really think or
care about it. Now that it’s our turn in the ageist barrel, we are shocked &
dismayed. As Steve said, not really surprising. This is exactly what capitalism does.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:36 AM, Steve Horein <[email protected]>
wrote:
Not really surprising, but I did not see much empathy for those older
employees (or IBM in general) in the comments of this topic on reddit:
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1dfMy-SfHe1W2vtmpin7YZFmlHchVzEsEnrLinBorh28FKFlMXYGVvu6XH39F0mXTmI_0EEDnePoRd59BgGFUYlInDZj4cS4Lah_KXFSDtt4ROhIKGRu4NEQ5PP3UsGQjqFHpdEYswnDm9LBxXAamuNg9S1GEUV5Xd75UDlGGgedxhOCZhv37kD5OHRnPJfuTlH207FfjDimbiCt9oGHke9YUzhL3BUE28iRAQL7aVI42XlDOVPwLng4LOEppKFyHha1mJtpHDKiZ_-ZsCk_iAB127QAl8hxn5x3mEFA8jNKMudxxjJlZuA1BG3Zjb6tI6ShXov17AD0rzHnNdow0wwrSm3CEnsajFcU_0x_NwVOVg6Q0x_3ViP6uVuFseE31b9B74gWpZsDmQ8JOyH4adN--CvB4KrmojXi7pmufHIYZ5US2wvg1DMwEV8qfoPFgf1sjdkWwdFJ_1xB4J2iepA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftechnology%2Fcomments%2Fsrq7im%2Fibm_executives_called_older_workers_dinobabies%2F
On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 5:12 AM Joe Monk <[email protected]> wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/12/business/economy/ibm-age-discrimination.html
"Another email by a top executive, appearing to refer to older workers,
mentions a plan to “accelerate change by inviting the ‘dinobabies’ (new
species) to leave” and make them an “extinct species.”
A third email refers to IBM’s “dated maternal workforce,” an apparent
allusion to older women, and says: “This is what must change. They really
don’t understand social or engagement. Not digital natives. A real threat
for us.”
Joe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
