Companies charge less than cost all the time in America. When I worked in retail, we would put shave cream on sale below cost, knowing that most shaving cream buyers would also buy blades, razors, and face moisturizers at inflated prices. Had a whole group dedicated to what we called “Market Basket Analysis”. Huge DB2 system. Another regular loss leader was Coke or Pepsi products.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 6:57 PM, Mike Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: Under WTO rules, illegal to charge less for a product than its actual cost. On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 11:38 PM Bill Johnson <00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > Called a loss. In fact loss leader. Not a profit leader. Yes, I spent lots of > time in retail. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 4:34 PM, Joe Monk <joemon...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Of course profits can be negative... Have you never heard of a loss leader? > An item sold below cost generates a negative profit. > > Joe > > On Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 09:03 Bill Johnson < > 00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > > Profits can’t be negative unless the company is fraudulently reporting. > > You’re out of your league. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:46 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > Whoosh! What that means is that there are plenty of examples of massive > > changes in stock prices that had nothing to do with profitability. > > > > I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cash flow being negative; that has > > nothing to do with the issue. And, yes, pprofits can also be negative. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:22 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > LOLOLOLOL, what does that even mean? Uber is a prime example of NEGATIVE > > cash flow. They’ve NEVER turned a profit to date & their negative cash flow > > has been in the billions since they went public in 2019. Explains why the > > stock is significantly below their IPO price. And the internet bubble is a > > real thing. So is the housing bubble. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:15 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > Yeah, and the dot com crash never happened. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:17 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > Again, cash flow can be positive OR NEGATIVE. Profits are what drives > > stock prices, executive compensation, and investment. Revenue drives SOME > > stocks, mostly newer ones, who invest big for future profits. Which > > generates negative cash flow until they reach profitability stage and > > growth (and investment) begins to slow. Executive compensation has almost > > nothing to do with corporate profitability. In fact many companies pay > > executives in stock options not cash. You really don’t know what you’re > > talking about. The S&P 500 index is a factor of profits times a multiple. > > Current 2022 estimate of S&P 500 profits is estimated at $235 and > > approximately a 22 multiple. Giving the index a 5170 valuation right around > > where most banks and investment houses project the index will finish in 22. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 9:50 PM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > That's a non sequitur. You've just proven my point. > > > > Actions taken to improve profits take a long time to have the desired > > effect. Stock prices are driven by what happens in the near term. That's > > cash flow, not profits. > > > > Most top level executives seek to maximize their compensation, even if > > that is at the expense of the long term profitability of their company. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:45 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > Then there was no need for the 1967 age discrimination law! LOL I’m not > > confusing anything. This article is a continuation of the age > > discrimination lawsuit filed by IBM employees in 2018. Most companies do it > > to maximize profits since profits make the stock price go up and the > > executives and shareholders benefit when profits go up. Cash flow can be > > positive or negative. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:34 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > You're confusing cash flow with profits. Unless there are external > > constraints, wages don't increase by themselves. The natural behavior in > > capitalism is to not give raises unless it would cost you more for the > > employee to leave.. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:10 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > Profits are maximized by getting rid of the older, higher cost (wages & > > health care) employees and hiring younger lower cost ones. Pretty standard > > capitalism. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:05 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > No, capitalism is designed to maximize profits. Out of control speculation > > has shifted the emphasis to cash flow, which would have appalled Adam Smith. > > > > What happens in a rational market is that employees don't give raises > > unless there is a labor shortage, and that employers try to keep productive > > workers. This is especially true when they've spent a lot of money on > > training. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:59 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > I didn’t say YOU pushed them out the door. The cycle of replacing higher > > priced workers with lower cost ones always happens. Exactly what capitalism > > is designed to do. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:55 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > > wrote: > > > > When I was young, I worked with older employees; I did not push them out > > the door. Further, there are legal limits on age discrimination. What we > > are seeing is the triumph of cash flow over profits, and it is not what > > capitalism does in a rational environment, any more than the gulag is what > > socialism does. > > > > In fact, there have been times and places where capitalism discriminated > > against younger workers and, as above, that was not intrinsic to capitalism. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:43 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > > > When we were young, we helped usher out older workers & we didn’t really > > think or care about it. Now that it’s our turn in the ageist barrel, we are > > shocked & dismayed. As Steve said, not really surprising. This is exactly > > what capitalism does. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:36 AM, Steve Horein < > > steve.hor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Not really surprising, but I did not see much empathy for those older > > employees (or IBM in general) in the comments of this topic on reddit: > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1dfMy-SfHe1W2vtmpin7YZFmlHchVzEsEnrLinBorh28FKFlMXYGVvu6XH39F0mXTmI_0EEDnePoRd59BgGFUYlInDZj4cS4Lah_KXFSDtt4ROhIKGRu4NEQ5PP3UsGQjqFHpdEYswnDm9LBxXAamuNg9S1GEUV5Xd75UDlGGgedxhOCZhv37kD5OHRnPJfuTlH207FfjDimbiCt9oGHke9YUzhL3BUE28iRAQL7aVI42XlDOVPwLng4LOEppKFyHha1mJtpHDKiZ_-ZsCk_iAB127QAl8hxn5x3mEFA8jNKMudxxjJlZuA1BG3Zjb6tI6ShXov17AD0rzHnNdow0wwrSm3CEnsajFcU_0x_NwVOVg6Q0x_3ViP6uVuFseE31b9B74gWpZsDmQ8JOyH4adN--CvB4KrmojXi7pmufHIYZ5US2wvg1DMwEV8qfoPFgf1sjdkWwdFJ_1xB4J2iepA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftechnology%2Fcomments%2Fsrq7im%2Fibm_executives_called_older_workers_dinobabies%2F > > > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 5:12 AM Joe Monk <joemon...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/12/business/economy/ibm-age-discrimination.html > > > > > > "Another email by a top executive, appearing to refer to older workers, > > > mentions a plan to “accelerate change by inviting the ‘dinobabies’ (new > > > species) to leave” and make them an “extinct species.” > > > > > > A third email refers to IBM’s “dated maternal workforce,” an apparent > > > allusion to older women, and says: “This is what must change. They really > > > don’t understand social or engagement. Not digital natives. A real threat > > > for us.” > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
