Tom, I have gotten the privilege of reinstalling 2 Windows machines in the past year that were so messed up from failed installs/updates that it was easier to just low level the hard drive and start over. Could I have fixed 1 or both of them? I don't really know, because Microsoft has hidden the inner workings so far they wouldn't even tell me what was wrong. Just some generic "something broke" message. Kind of hard to actually fix something when that's the totality of the error message.
But, yes, I've had similar experiences with third party z/OS software (I won't mention any names or acronyms). One recent episode was when I called the vendor the first response I got back was along the lines of "yeah, we can't even make sense of the install as documented. Here, let me walk you through my process." His worked, but it was nothing like the document. Rex -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom Brennan Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 12:20 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF I can't remember the last time a Windows/Linux install failed. I do remember the last time an ISV z/OS install failed, and when I called for help the support person said, "Don't worry about it, *everybody* calls when installing this particular product." :) ISRFIND/ISRDDN is still hunting. And you also need to look at LOADxx, IEASYSxx, and maybe IEASYMxx to figure out what members are being used. How would an installation program find those libraries/members to automatically make the required mods? Not easy. Yes, z/OS is complex, but it doesn't have to be. Like Lionel implied, maybe we need to standardize before something like z/OSMF can ever work as planned. On 5/30/2023 9:02 AM, Shaffer, Terri wrote: > Kids can install, because basically one FMID, and if it doesn’t work, good > luck. > > How many FMID components make up core z/OS? Maybe if IBM made it one FMID > you could install like android. > > I can use ISRFIND or ISRDDN, to find many things out in Seconds, no more > hunting thru libraries. > > z/OS is complex, period, its why I can run 4 flavors of many components, I > can run X number of LPARS at different z/OS versions, even look at SDSF with > SDSFAUX now, tons of information is known in seconds, but change z/OS release > and not all were available yet, SO what assumptions are you will to concede > to, for z/OSMF to work, with out adding to the headaches. > > Ms Terri E Shaffer > Senior Systems Engineer, > z/OS Support: > ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter > H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) > [email protected] > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Tom Brennan > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 11:20 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF > > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the > content is safe. > > > So how come my kids can install apps and updates to their Windows and > Mac machines, and I can work with Linux with no formal training? For > example, I don't need to hunt down SYS3.MY2013.PARMLIB(PROG46), I look > in /etc and parms are in standard directories. Even my Android (while > annoying) updates itself from time to time. > > z/OSMF isn't the cure though. System standardization might be, but that > would still include IBM dictating how things are done. We accept that on the > other platforms and it seems to solve a lot of problems. > > On 5/30/2023 7:24 AM, Shaffer, Terri wrote: >> I have to disagree. >> >> First lets talk about the migration guide and how many products an average >> customer runs for a z/OS upgrade? >> Then how many of the hundreds of actions does any one customer need to >> actually perform? >> Then, I know many customers, who may apply one RSU once per year and just >> add 1-2 PTF for break fix, why would I ever want IBM to supply libraries >> past an RSU level? >> >> One stop shopping doesn’t allow the flexibility the mainframe has always >> provided, IBM should not dictate how I setup my shop. >> >> Lastly, isn’t the actual issue, no-one takes any initiative to learn anymore. >> >> Use the analogy of back in the 80's, how much with IOGENs and everything >> else IBM has done over the years to simplify the system programmers tasks. >> >> But now they want GUI/Clicky and removed the interface from the mainframe. >> Sorry but I have seen too many lockouts for this to work effectively.... >> >> >> Ms Terri E Shaffer >> Senior Systems Engineer, >> z/OS Support: >> ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter >> H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592) >> [email protected] >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On >> Behalf Of Mike Schwab >> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 10:11 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: zOSMF >> >> EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the >> content is safe. >> >> >> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 9:04 AM Colin Paice <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> People feel that z/OSMF is not meeting their needs. Looking at the >>> positive side....If we wanted to get future z/OS newbies up to speed >>> very quickly (1 >>> month) What should IBM and us users be doing? >>> >>> 1. Making better use of existing tools? Eclipse ? >>> 2. Simplify the installation process (perhaps download the CST level of >>> code including SMP/E libraries - so we users do not need to use SMP/E - >>> just copy the libraries?) >>> 3. Simplify the configuration? (How many configuration parameters are >>> no >>> longer needed and could just be set to "default") >>> 4. Drive everything from off-platform through Curl? >>> 5. Setting up Racf definitions for a new product can be challenging ... >>> how can we simplify this - for example products should provide members >>> of >>> the definitions. It is easier to delete unwanted lines - than type in >>> definitions. >>> 6. .... >>> >>> Is there anything easy we/IBM could do to move in the right direction? >>> >>> Colin >>> >> Examine the current system, >> create a script to set the equivalent values for z/OSMF? >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO >> IBM-MAIN ________________________________ >> >> [https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://go.aciworldwide.com/rs/030-ROK-804/images/aci-footer.jpg__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!pLb5hlBsF1HJTUQSxetR0J1DEP5E0p7HKbqjVFRtNBMsfpp-2jPBoOJDkTM0ohg8N_3G4U7GDNAN0wL4NeSjQg4$ >> ] >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.aciworldwide.com__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!pLb5hlBsF1HJTUQSxetR0J1DEP5E0p7HKbqjVFRtNBMsfpp-2jPBoOJDkTM0ohg8N_3G4U7GDNAN0wL4a-VDkPA$ >> > This email message and any attachments may contain confidential, >> proprietary or non-public information. 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