ALCON: Usually, royalties and residuals are paid to people who are uniquely able to contribute to the design of a unique creation; something that cannot be practically done by others. This would include actors or writers who are recognized and whose presence during the creation of a project is valued every time it is resold in the future.
The same thing applies to computer related patents and other intellectual property. If one creates software (or hardware) that a patent office (or intellectual property expert) recognizes as special and unique, i.e. something that cannot, from a practical point of view, be done by ordinary practitioners, one is granted legal recognition and the legal right to royalties and other compensation, as negotiated. The business of intellectual property intersects slightly with computer coding, but generally not. Do you pay the guy that built your chair a royalty every time you use it? I have designed and written many things. The vast majority of which entitles me to no royalties or commissions. This is because any competent practitioner could have created the same (or similar) thing. However, there are a very few things I have designed or written that merited recognition as "intellectual property" and subsequently worth significant, special, negotiated compensation. Very significant. As for the OP's "60-65 $/hr" [sic] quote, I suspect that the amount the final user is actually paying, and this amount are enormously different. Either the coder or the final user are being taken advantage of. My guess would be that it is the final consumer of the code, who is paying for quality and getting "a warm body" who receives little but is billed extravagantly. I believe this is because lately, companies are being exploited by body-shops. These final code-consuming companies lack existing people who can properly vet qualified people for needed positions. Harry ________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of Dave Beagle <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 7:24 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Assembler programmer wanted Funny how the industry's most associated with “intellectual property” and residuals are some of the least intellectual. IT workers should have unionized 50 years ago and could have gotten a “piece of a very large pie”. Deservedly so. It would have included engineers, computer scientists, mathematicians, Architects and scientists. (Perhaps others) Some of the most educated intellectuals in the world. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Monday, December 4, 2023, 11:56 AM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote: Correcting an error or writing an enhancement *does* generate revenue, directly or indirectly, by helping to acquire or retain users. Asking for a piece of the pie is always reasonable, as is refusing the request. It's a matter of finding terms that both sides can agree on. In practice I suspect that most companies would refuse to pay royalties but would offer something else to sweeten the pie. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F~smetz3&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ccb696c60f8014c0a2d5c08dbf528ae3e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638373327451891677%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OedGhWjWxiVqg0PKivBakmIUPxsRe1GunOES3DunPs4%3D&reserved=0<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3> עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of Dean Kent <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2023 9:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Assembler programmer wanted I think this is a bad analogy. The guy who installs or fixes an item that does not actually generate revenue certainly can ask for residuals - but there aren't any since there is no income from it. However, if residuals is a thing (which it is in some industries) then asking for a piece of the pie for something that generates a regular income stream seems reasonable. In fact, I would suggest that it does exist - though it isn't common. There are some companies that will pay a tiny percentage of revenue generated by patents that result in revenue. More often, however, they pay a 'bounty' for those patents and require the IP be assigned to them. I don't think it is a stretch to claim that a significant contributor of a bit of software should get a residual. If we stretch it a bit further, isn't that what a licensing fee is? So at that point, we are not discussing residuals, but (partial or full) ownership. I would suggest that if the software industry needs anything to be stronger, it is how IP rights are handled. I live in California. The company I worked for was bought out by a very large software company over 20 years ago. As part of the employment agreement for this acquiring company we had to sign a contract that stated anything we thought, said, did, wrote, or otherwise created - whether at work or at home - while employed was owned by the company. I balked until I turned the page and it said "does not apply to California or Minnesota employees". State laws prevented them from snatching ownership for most of what they were claiming. California law, to the best of my knowledge, does give the employer ownership of an invention/product if it was developed using company resources, and/or knowledge that could only have been acquired through that employer. Otherwise, it is owned by the person who developed it. Disclaimer: IANAL On 12/3/2023 3:00 PM, Tom Brennan wrote: > Should I pay something to the guy who put the shingles on my house > every time it rains? > > It's a trick question. I'm the guy who put the shingles on my house. > > On 12/3/2023 12:07 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >> When a bank runs an EFTPOS transaction, a fee is charged, all thanks to >> some code. When they run a mortgage amortization program, a debit occurs >> on a periodic basis. The whole system of direct debits generates a >> transfer of funds from a customer to the code executor... >> >> I could go on.... >> >> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 7:03 AM Bob Bridges <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> LOL, the Indians and I would have more work offered to us :). >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* I like what the Roman fellow said: “I think nothing human alien >>> to me.” >>> When I read of a Mao or a Susan Smith, I try to imagine their >>> temptations, >>> not to exculpate them, but to implicate myself. Part of the >>> greatness of >>> Macbeth lies in the way it shows terrible crimes from the inside, >>> without >>> in the least excusing them. -Joe Sobran, Dec 1994 */ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On >>> Behalf >>> Of Doug Fuerst >>> Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 15:37 >>> >>> Maybe we should ask for residuals for our creative property like >>> actors. >>> We give it all away too easily. What would happen if we all went on >>> strike? >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
