That depends on the certification. One thing that I learned in school is that if you don't know the material, open book and take-home exams will crush you.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of Tom Brennan <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2026 11:18 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Trade Union External Message: Use Caution I'll mostly agree with both. The IBM certification tests I took maybe 10 years ago meant you really had to learn the subject, because you had to drive to a third party and take a test with no materials. You even had to lock up your cell phone and there was a camera on you the whole time. Some of these took me multiple tries, which was a bit embarrassing. Side note: I didn't take these because I wanted to, it was a job requirement. Lately the same IBM certifications are all online. You're given materials in the form of powerpoints, pdfs, and even videos, and you run through them and then take the test. You can go find the answers in the material during the test! So most of the time it's easy to pass first time. It's like the 10 word spelling quizzes we took each day when I was in grammar school. I learned all 10 the night before, got all of them right the next day, and forgot them the day after that. And yes, I worked with a lot of excellent sysprogs who didn't write ASM programs. But they certainly knew what they were looking at when they needed to review one. And they also knew things like an Sx13 abend came from an OPEN macro, what exactly caused 0C7's, and similar details. On 2/7/2026 3:58 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: > Certifications are not worth the paper they get printed on. You don't > need to be an assembler programmer to be a sysprog. > > Doug Fuerst > > > ------ Original Message ------ >> From "Farley, Peter" <[email protected]> > To [email protected] > Date 2/7/2026 18:35:06 PM > Subject Re: Trade Union > >> +1 >> >> Ditto for application programmers IMHO, though the certification tests >> would be different. >> >> There was a time In my younger days that I was against trade unions in >> general and in particular against "professional" unions, but my views >> have changed dramatically since then. >> >> Life is a hard teacher. >> >> Peter >> >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On >>> Behalf Of Brian Westerman >>> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2026 4:54 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Trade Union? >>> >>> This is just my 2 cents worth so hopefully no one will be outraged by >>> my comments, but >>> why would anyone be excluded from certification? I know electricians >>> that have been >>> doing electrical work that I would not trust to change a light bulb. >>> But the ones that have >>> been certified tend to be a completely different (and better) class. >>> I have known, and >>> still do, many "Systems Programmers" that have over 25 years of >>> "experience" that don't >>> have what I would consider basic systems programming skills. In a >>> gathering of systems >>> programmers, if you ask how many know assembler well enough to write >>> an exit, not >>> many hands will go up. If you ask how many have actually installed >>> z/OS with z/OSMF >>> or Serverpac, you would likely get the same result. You might ask if >>> it is fair to be >>> excluded just because you don't yet know assembler or have had the >>> "chance" to install >>> z/OS but if you want to have a certification, then you have to >>> establish the minimum >>> requirements and guarantee that everyone who obtains that >>> certification meets them. >>> >>> If you establish a standard that you could create a certification >>> for, then allowing those >>> that should easily be able to pass the certification out of even >>> taking the "test" is silly. >>> It would cheapen the meaning of being "certified". There should be >>> requirements to >>> maintain the certification as well. Just because you learned how to >>> do something 27 >>> years ago doesn't mean you can do it now, nor that you can do it well >>> enough to >>> demand a premium price to be paid to perform that work. >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 14:45:19 -0600, Steve Beaver >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> How many of the US Consultants would be open to creating at trade union >>>> >>>> With the specific proviso that everyone with over 25 years' experience >>>> >>>> Would be excluded from getting certified but could go get >>>> certifications >>>> >>>> Steve Beaver >> -- >> >> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the >> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and >> confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended >> recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, >> you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication >> is strictly prohibited. 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