Amen, Steve, or at least discuss options with knowledgable techies. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD
> On Jan 8, 2014, at 10:04 AM, Steve Conway <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi, Ron, > > "The only thing I wish we would teach newbies in any field of mainframe is > "Do Nothing" should always be in the list of options." > > I wish we could teach (some of) management that, as well. > > > Cheers,,,Steve > > Steven F. Conway, CISSP > LA Systems > z/OS Systems Support > Phone: 703.295.1926 > [email protected] > > > > From: Ron Hawkins <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Date: 01/07/2014 05:24 AM > Subject: Re: Scary Sysprogs > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> > > > > All, > > My history with z/OS is more about performance and tuning, rather than > hardcore sysprogging. > > Tuning is almost always about doing it a new way, and I only wish there > were > more newbies in this field with no preconceived ideas about how it has > always worked. Back when I was not Mr Congeniality a stand up argument > with > a Sysprog about how to resolve a performance problem was almost a monthly > occasion at any site. > > The only thing I wish we would teach newbies in any field of mainframe is > "Do Nothing" should always be in the list of options. > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Miklos Szigetvari >> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 1:32 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Scary Sysprogs >> >> Nathan (and maybe any other youngster) >> >> I think if you have some problem, you will get every support from this >> newsgroup list , and if you need, personally from me also. >> Glad to see young people here. >> >>> On 06.01.2014 19:44, Nathan J Pfister wrote: >>> Harry has a good point. I am a 26 year old in the mainframe world, >>> and came into an internship with the US DoD while in my Junior Year of >>> college. I have seen, from the younger generation view that he >>> pointed out, a fair amount of the dismissive and condescending >>> attitudes in some of the seniors that I have worked with. That being >>> said, there are also quite a few seniors that I have had the fortune >>> of working with that have had quite the opposite affect on me >>> personally, and they are the reason that I have, for a bit more than 5 >>> years now stuck with a career working with z/OS. Maybe I am among the >>> outliers in the research study alluded to, but I feel that all fields >>> have a fair amount of people in both >>> positions: those willing to share and listen, and those that are still >>> trying to live the glory days of old being very quick to dismiss any >>> new ideas...so I'm not sure that that is unique to the demographics of >>> the z/OS Systems Programmer groups. >>> >>> That said, maybe I was just fortunate that I found my internship and >>> first post-college job within the Federal Government in which it is >>> nearly impossible to get fired, thus making change and new >>> ideas/people not as much of a threat as in private industry. >>> >>> >>> Thanks; >>> >>> Nathan Pfister >>> zOS Systems Programmer >>> AES\PHEAA - Tech Services >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Harry Wahl" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Date: 01/06/2014 01:34 PM >>> Subject: Scary Sysprogs; was: Is the oner of IBM-Main still > with >>> us? >>> Sent by: "IBM Mainframe Discussion List" <IBM- >> [email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Interesting segue this thread has taken... >>> I recently attended an IBM meeting which addressed why young people >>> are eschewing an IBM z/OS mainframe career in favor of other >>> platforms, including other IBM platforms. This seems to be a very >>> serious concern at IBM and possibly the greatest threat to the future > of >> z/OS. >>> The speaker was a woman from IBM who had been tasked by IBM >> management >>> to study this. She presented selected conclusions from her assignment. >>> Some results were what one would expect, many results were unexpected >>> or at least not typically considered in the context of z/OS's >>> continued viability. >>> One of the top reasons graduating students from the best universities >>> will not accept a position working on z/OS is how they feel they are >>> (or will >>> be) treated by z/OS "old-timers," particularly systems programmers. >>> This conclusion is supported by other data indicating that students >>> who co-op'ed or interned in z/OS positions are far more likely to >>> reject z/OS as a career as opposed to those graduates who have no >>> experience with the z/OS environment (technically and socially). >>> The prevailing conjecture for this phenomena is the relatively >>> advanced age of z/OS people. There seems to be a phase in one's life >>> and career where there is a natural desire to mentor young people. It >>> is a time when young people are not your competition (you have >>> accepted that you are no longer one of them) and you are aware of the >>> knowledge and insights your work experiences have imbued you with and >>> wish to express and share them with someone who can both appreciate >>> and benefit from them. This phase eventually passes...obviously. >>> The average age of z/OS people is far beyond the average age of other >>> platforms' people. It is understandable that a bright graduating >>> student, bursting with ideas and proud of his education, would do >>> anything to avoid working with a group they perceive as dismissive, >>> condescending and disrespectful curmudgeons. Memories of being chased >>> off lawns by grumpy old men are still fresh in their minds. >>> On occasion, I lecture at top universities and my small experience >>> interacting with students bears this out. Students are in awe of IBM's >>> technology (and they should be), but they don't want to work at any >>> job where regaling tales of "glory days" of the past eclipses >>> discussing bright new ideas from fresh minds. >>> Students graduating now don't consider IBM mainframe technology as old >>> and dying. They're too young to even remember the prognostications of >>> the mainframe's demise. >>> They fear the ancient guardians of the technology will simply stifle >>> what they could do with it. >>> Harry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 10:39:20 -0600 >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Is the oner of IBM-Main still with us? >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Aled Hughes <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry Ed, but you need to lighten up or think about what/how you >>> write. >>>>> The SysProgs of yore have long dropped their 'angry young men' > stance. >>>>> This Forum is thankfully a witness to that. >>>> The "Angry young men" have been replaced by the "PIssed off old > farts" >>>> <grin/>. Jeff Dunham's "Walter" character is our leader. <GRIN> >>>> >>>> >>>>> ALH >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This is clearly another case of too many mad scientists, and not >>>> enough hunchbacks. >>>> >>>> Maranatha! <>< >>>> John McKown >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO >>>> IBM-MAIN >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >>> email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains privileged and confidential information intended >>> for the above addressees only. 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