Timothy:

What about theft of software products ? We all know it goes on ...
How do you prevent it ?

Scott

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Charles Mills <[email protected]> wrote:

> Oh gee, let me try to respond to the most significant points here.
>
> > Charles Mills argues in defense of software product keys for mainframe
> software.
>
> No, I argue in defense of vendors getting paid (so they can pay their
> employees, their rent, their SHARE sponsorships, their IBM bills, ...).
> Keys
> are just a means to that end. I was asking you how SCRT provided a means to
> that end. (As I suspected, you only defend it as a way of implementing MSU
> pricing, not as a way of getting paid at all.) Speaking of things that
> customers hate -- how about adding MSU pricing to the list, perhaps even
> ahead of keys?
>
> > the scope for software product keys is substantially reduced?
>
> Not for vendors that do not MSU price.
>
> > you send your customer a bill for the difference up to the full machine
> capacity
>
> Good luck getting paid.
>
> > you pursue available remedies. Including court remedies
>
> That's a winning customer relations strategy!
>
> > even if you still want to stick with them (misguidedly, in my personal
> view)
>
> Misguided only if you neglect my other points.
>
> > if you're providing support and maintenance (and I hope you are), machine
> serial number details are presumably available in dumps, traces, logs, etc.
>
> We get very few such problems. VERY few. I cannot tell my management that
> that is to be our solution.
>
> > add machine serial numbers (where the product *might*
> > run) to their product, up front, and in perpetuity
>
> Assuming they run that one box in perpetuity, which does not seem very
> likely. Without even considering DR.
>
> > You put the "emergency" key(s) on a couple secured, cloud-hosted sites
> (say, at IBM and Google)
>
> Agreed. Good solution. Takes a lot of work to get it right however.
>
> > Slightly function limit the trial version
>
> My management would NEVER agree to "sell" anything but the latest and
> greatest. Hard to come up with a generalized subset that fully demonstrates
> to non-technical management that we solve their particular problem/wish
> list
> but that is not "good enough" to use for months or years.
>
> > open download for everyone
>
> Including competitors? Does IBM do this for z/OS LOL?
>
> > Give me an idea of what your product does
>
> Not "mine," but here you go:
> https://correlog.com/mainframe-security-solutions/sas-correlog-mainframe/
>
> > Send them a bill per the terms and conditions of your trial agreement
> with
> the customer
>
> Lots of luck!
>
> > forward it to collections
>
> And abandon ANY chance of ever actually getting the sale! That's the
> problem
> here. Remember, this is a prospect who is saying "we're going to buy your
> product ... but my boss has been too busy to review your license." Easiest
> solution is for the sales rep to be able to say "well, I can extend you
> another ten days but that's absolutely it."
>
> Charles
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Timothy Sipples
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 6:41 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Vendor Licensing Frustrations
>
> Charles Mills argues in defense of software product keys for mainframe
> software.
>
> OK, let's pursue these arguments a bit. To start off, assuming IBM provides
> what the z/OS 2.3 preview announcement describes, isn't it reasonable for
> even the most "stodgy" vendor to concede that the scope for software
> product
> keys is substantially reduced? In particular, if your software product key
> somehow limits runtime capacity on licensed/authorized machines, why? If
> your customer has 100 MSUs licensed on machine serial number 12345 and
> actually uses 110 MSUs, you send your customer a list price bill for the
> additional 10 MSUs per your contractual agreement. If your customer doesn't
> send a SCRT report for some month, you send your customer a bill for the
> difference up to the full machine capacity, per your agreement. (If you
> don't know the full machine capacity, and if your customer doesn't provide
> reasonable evidence of the full machine capacity, then send a bill for the
> difference between the largest available capacity IBM currently sells and
> the customer's licensed capacity.) If your customer doesn't pay the bill
> you
> think your customer is supposed to pay, then you pursue available remedies.
> Including court remedies if necessary. (Which need not cost anything
> out-of-pocket since lawyers and bill collectors in many countries operate
> on
> contingency, if/as you wish.)
>
> I hope we can all agree that adoption of SCRT -- assuming IBM delivers what
> it plans to deliver -- at least reduces the "problem space." And thus
> properly ought to reduce the burden, complexity, and scope of product keys,
> even if you still want to stick with them (misguidedly, in my personal
> view).
>
> Also, customers understandably might ask, "If it's good enough for IBM and
> other vendors (SCRT, no product keys), why isn't it good enough for you?"
> Think carefully before you answer. :-) Customers aren't often stupid.
> They're going to assign penalty marks to products with keys. Keys increase
> their risks and operational costs, and so keys comparatively devalue your
> product versus competition. Whether you can still win that competitive
> battle depends on the circumstances, but they're "not helpful."
>
> Moving on....
>
> Charles Mills wrote:
> >- Is this or some other customer running this product on some CPU that
> >we have no knowledge about?
>
> Maybe. There are a couple answers to that. First, if you're providing
> support and maintenance (and I hope you are), machine serial number details
> are presumably available in dumps, traces, logs, etc. -- in the problem
> determination data your customers voluntarily, knowingly send you to help
> you support them. So there are occasions when you'll have visibility on
> such
> "missing" machines.
>
> Second, IF you absolutely must have software product keys, then customers
> ought to be able to add machine serial numbers (where the product *might*
> run) to their product, up front, and in perpetuity. For example, you
> license
> the product on primary machine serial number 12345 and also allow the
> customer to add serial number 67890 to the key, on day one, for their DR
> machine. Whenever they get a new or replacement machine (if they do), they
> can change either or both serial numbers. Loop, repeat. And you must
> receive
> SCRT reports for the primary machine, by contract agreement. Can you handle
> that sort of arrangement commercially? Of course you can.
> Meanwhile, customers don't have anything to do when they need to recover
> their operations on their DR machine. They already have the key, and
> they've
> already run a DR rehearsal (hopefully).
>
> Yet another way to handle keys (IF you must, and I don't recommend them) is
> a "break glass in an emergency" way. You put the "emergency" key(s) on a
> couple secured, cloud-hosted sites (say, at IBM and Google). If the
> customer
> grabs the key, you receive a message or notice from the cloud
> provider(s) that somebody grabbed the key. And that key is only to lift
> already less onerous restrictions, such as exceeding a 90 day DR machine
> run.
>
> If you're going to have keys (please don't), you really need to think
> through how customers must run their mission-critical operations. And you
> need to plant your feet firmly in their shoes, first, and understand what
> YOU would want if it were your business. And you wouldn't want what some
> vendors (a minority) currently do.
>
> >- This customer has been running a "30-day" trial of our product for
> >nine months now. How do we get them to move "finalizing a license" to
> >the top
> of
> >their task list rather than letting it languish under "we have not had
> time
> >to do that yet"?
>
> There are a couple possible answers to this:
>
> 1. Slightly function limit the trial version in a "sensible," reasonable
> way
> -- and, better yet, make the trial a free, open download for everyone, so
> that you get more potential sales. (Maybe with a registration page to
> collect customer details up front, but with as few barriers as possible.
> Make it easier to trial the product, and you sell more.) For example, if
> you're a vendor of printing software, "watermark" every 5th printout in the
> trial version. The form of "watermarking" will be product specific and
> situational, but pick something reasonable in the circumstances. When your
> customer pays for a license and signs their agreement (including SCRT terms
> and conditions), send them the non-watermarked code. (Which by then might
> be
> a point release or two higher anyway.)
>
> Give me an idea of what your product does, and I can probably think of a
> "reasonable" trial version limitation, or couple limitations, that still
> gives prospective customers a reasonable, legitimate opportunity to
> evaluate
> your product but that doesn't convey enduring production suitability.
>
> 2. Send them a bill per the terms and conditions of your trial agreement
> with the customer. If the customer refuses to pay the bill, forward it to
> collections -- outsourced, on contingency, if/as you prefer.
>
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