In Java you have other issues, every programming languages has pluses and minuses.. The nature of what we do..
Scott On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 9:02 PM Joseph Reichman <reichman...@gmail.com> wrote: > This type coding z/os internals must make up about 1% of software > development > > I’m quite sure that for Java there isn’t this type of problem > > > > > On Nov 12, 2018, at 5:54 PM, Binyamin Dissen <bdis...@dissensoftware.com> > wrote: > > > > There are a large number of parts to make sure that things are done the > right > > way, and that a fault will not bring the system to a crash. > > > > While one might be able to show examples of simple techniques, there is > a lot > > of infrastructure required to handle problems. > > > > For example, what happens if you force an SSAR to a swapable address > space > > that happens to be swapped in and the address space gets swapped out in > the > > middle? If I recall correctly, the next page fault that I had in the > target > > address space caused a MEMTERM of the home address space - which meant no > > ESTAEs got control. > > > > > > > > On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 22:11:15 +0000 "Farley, Peter x23353" > > <peter.far...@broadridge.com> wrote: > > > > :>And that was my whole point -- Where are the examples for programmers > to see how to do it the right way? > > :> > > :>If SHARE has some presentations it is good to know that. Not the > easiest place to search for stuff, but at least it is accessible. > > :> > > :>Yes, of course experience is the best teacher, but without even > examples of how to do something it is awfully hard to figure it out on your > own. > > :> > > :>". . . thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works" is a whole > 'nother can of worms. Back in the day places like universities in some > cities offered "adult education" courses on MVS debugging and internals. I > took a two-semester course like that back around the time that the MVS lock > manager was first introduced, and it was wonderful, complex, interesting > material to learn. > > :> > > :>Of course, all that is ancient history now. No university or > education center offers anything like that anymore. Much more profitable > to offer certification courses in Windows. > > :> > > :>Peter > > :> > > :>-----Original Message----- > > :>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Steve Smith > > :>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 3:33 PM > > :>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > :>Subject: Re: Why are sophisticated system-level coding examples not > available? [was: RE: Recommended method for accessing secondary access > spaces] > > :> > > :>There are some good SHARE presentations on some of these techniques. > > :>Unfortunately for you, I'm too lazy to search for them. > > :> > > :>However, and this is important, anything and everything you do that > uses authorized services entails exposure of system integrity. It behooves > any organization to ensure that its personnel writing such code are > well-trained and thoroughly knowledgeable about how the system works, is > designed, and what those exposures are. It's also perfectly clear many > organizations, including many ISVs, do not. This kind of knowledge and > experience doesn't come from blindly following two-sentence replies from > who knows who on IBM-MAIN (I know who's who on IBM-MAIN, as many of us do, > but how would a newbie know?). > > :> > > :>You could easily read a paper on the latest techniques in brain > surgery. > > :>I'd be skeptical about your ability to do it, unless you had the prior > training and experience it requires. > > :> > > :>The point is, you need that training and experience, and you also need > to be able to train and study on your own, as there's very little in the > way of formal education in our field. Neither IBM-MAIN nor StackOverflow > are a substitute for the fundamentals. > > :> > > :>sas > > :> > > :>On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:56 PM David W Noon < > 0000013a910fd252-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > :> > > :>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2018 18:13:30 +0000, Farley, Peter X23353 > > :>> (peter.far...@broadridge.com) wrote about "Why are sophisticated > > :>> system-level coding examples not available? [was: RE: Recommended > > :>> method for accessing secondary access spaces]" (in > > :>> <f6dfa267dd2a448b881a732dbbcc3...@clipswexmaa4.bsg.ad.adp.com>): > > :>> > > :>> > Not jumping on Ed Jaffe or Peter Relson or any of the other > > :>> > thoughtful and helpful responders in this email chain, but it > still > > :>> > rankles me that there are no good examples anywhere (not at IBM > and > > :>> > not at CBT) for programmers to review that show exactly how to set > > :>> > up and use "SRB to the other address space and PC-ss back to the > > :>> > requesting address space" or any similarly sophisticated > > :>> > system-level application coding technique. > > :>> > > > :>> > Why is system-level application coding made an obscure mystery to > > :>> > which only IBM and (some) ISV's have access? Good examples that > > :>> > show how to "do the right thing" would avoid an awful lot of > > :>> > dangerous > > :>> experimentation. > > :>> > "Security through obscurity" is, I think all here would agree. NOT > a > > :>> > good thing. > > > > -- > > Binyamin Dissen <bdis...@dissensoftware.com> > > http://www.dissensoftware.com > > > > Director, Dissen Software, Bar & Grill - Israel > > > > > > Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, > > you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. > > > > I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, > > especially those from irresponsible companies. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Scott Ford IDMWORKS z/OS Development ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
