Ah, language wars. The problem is that there are a lot of pairs of languages where each has a nice feature that the other lacks. It's like editors: when I'm using ISPF I miss XEDIT and when I'm using XEDIT I miss ISPF.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on behalf of David Crayford [[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 11:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: strange python announcement Definately install Python 3.6 on z/OS (not 2.7). It comes with "pip" so you can download dependencies from the command line. I would suggest learning list comprehensions to get a grasp of Python awesomeness ;) It may make you forget about PL/I for a while. https://secure-web.cisco.com/1BpK7uVexEPFKIjoMCBvczGifoDzrhb8boC_LwwjvlndxRqNhSJM3QvOpEIUuQiZBgUXP2BT7jUa7NzDBVuY3WmqkNgQZFPKNg3Jt4cMF8QcrzUEQ_jC6J2ATwAQenCrzKYx5I9Vq43ZoRGfeGMj_DvJmcHKgYM84ca7bLj7yLuGwXsz2Zjq7XcXcc6qCC_92zu6emQbioPKJ7lRW9uIySdHlHEeM4nL_880YeMWvhjYNk4AzIW6NoRD7X8HftsymXqKOOkg3_3z32zq7fVSMbY1xqy_VXr2hYMXtk3d0QGsvyMpBCJ9vfDJ_l31cFCQ-UZHFKzRE1wiOWhWmo-QUk2OrSjoZTCNlRYmwx7NIcbqTRObNNWRztrncWr-r4oD8A68r_sifIzKUfbbBifJOq7__JMqHzaXDnu44FciWh6Me77JUyBxpjz2FBo6qTVVB/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pythonforbeginners.com%2Fbasics%2Flist-comprehensions-in-python On 2020-03-30 11:02 AM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > I will try Python, not unlike its superior language PL/I. <smirk>. I can > handle the poorer syntax (just). > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:00 PM Wayne Bickerdike <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Dave Crayford asks: "Take the dinosaur test. Do you use Git?" >> >> I do and the z/OS port is something I'm trying to get younger guys to use >> at our shop. >> >> I can't even get limited use of SCLM in to our guys modus operandi, >> something I've used for a number of years. >> >> We used to use Subversion for management of our code under early versions >> of Eclipse. One reason I don't upgrade certain machines is that so much >> stuff breaks on o/s upgrades, I use what worked in 2008 (Windows Vista). >> Now that Win 7 is written off, I have one Win 10 machine, the rest are olde >> but newer than my car. Fortunately the car works fine and parts are >> available. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:53 PM David Crayford <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I agree. I'm not knocking ISPF! I use it a lot, mainly SDSF as I use GUI >>> editors. The rest of the time I spend in a UNIX terminal shell using a >>> CLI. For a lot of tasks ISPF is the best tool for the job. >>> >>> BTW, calling a mainframer a dinosaur is not commonly considered an insult >>> ;) >>> >>> On 2020-03-30 10:36 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >>>> Not all change is progress. I like to be an early adopter, but if the >>> latest thing on the block is garbage then call me a dynosaur - I won't use >>> it voluntarily. If an old language or old tool suits my needs, I won't drop >>> it just because it's out of fashion. ISPF have flaws, but they also have >>> strengths; I will continue to use them when it makes sense to do so. >>> Amusingly enough, some of the "modern" software that I'm supposed to put up >>> with is itself pretty long in the tooth. >>>> Note; I don't like Perl syntax, but I use it anyway - because it offers >>> me enough that I'm willing to put up with it. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >>>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [[email protected]] on >>> behalf of David Crayford [[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2020 10:08 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: strange python announcement >>>> >>>> On 2020-03-30 2:43 AM, Charles Mills wrote: >>>>>> There's no advantage to REXX anymore, as fine a language as it is. >>>>> is not entirely true, right? Three advantages of Rexx would be native >>> support of EBCDIC, native support of xSAM, and straightforward invocation >>> from TSO? Right? >>>>> Again, not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand. >>>>> >>>>> Here's my motivation: I am trying to avoid dinosaurization. I am >>> trying to answer the questions "am I being an old fuddy-duddy for sticking >>> with Rexx over Python? Should I make an effort to embrace Python for the >>> tasks where I now tend to turn to Rexx?" >>>> Take the dinosaur test. Do you use Git? >>>> >>>>> And it sounds like the answer is No. Whatever dinosaurism I exhibit is >>> in sticking with TSO and ISPF, not in sticking with Rexx. (For what it's >>> worth, when I speak with customer personnel, 100% of them, to a man or >>> woman, seems to assume the computer world revolves around TSO for sysprogs >>> and batch for production -- so it makes sense for me to be most conversant >>> with those environments.) >>>> Is that a stereotype? I see a lot of young people working on mainframes >>>> (boths sysprogs and applications guys) who use modern tooling. The >>>> editor of choice is vscode with plugins >>>> >>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1eIMQVsY7papmDtxqCBNMtk8g2ijtX3gdC-KYp-U82BZB_h_XlDZr0OaMObgz7nd8eXAc-jU8QAEt7woLv9kmVJDrSSIdqzDkCWmphIKeQlM_Ps9C3kTjHGVqlHyN1nRHilDZkF0vOf6lhMBgJjMtxofAu5JLIFLg-LtgkKSJrV2tbphEqczI0V7DjOhJl9Yktdsu127NS0ya86Ov4_v514dAIc8m40U7UHmbzQC3qcJfvPjP_1UgWuyuCgpNdnIaYrFL4-wD3BLCFp5gB7nTJ4xroq46UF88qrnKX268AWvKt_Y6DJ3oH2YbA7nDF8aO4s3hgJ4vPRwp9-I9lj73IVkvMD8HAWDWmh6NR7z40htLyMbTNcps78RxBjzs-QRw-OYb24MS1znrVMOx6MtPgP_A4paM-tyyf_Yw9dUNvAAibKMUQgFpErMz916saybS6pB7JqkgzrhbPeeSoAz6Qw/https%3A%2F%2Fibm.github.io%2Fzopeneditor-about%2F >>> . >>>> You can deploy editor instances on the cloud using Eclipse Che with a >>>> web based UI. The mainframe has to keep up with the pace of >>>> modernization or it will slowly wither on the vine as no young person >>>> will want to work on it. >>>> The editor is just an example. Languages and tools are just as important >>>> as the IDE. >>>> >>>> >>>>> It also sounds like learning Python would not be a bad thing, but that >>> it would probably make more sense to become familiar first on an >>> interactive ASCII platform, and then perhaps bring the skills I learn there >>> to Z -- rather than starting out by trying to solve Z problems in an >>> unfamiliar environment with an unfamiliar language. Would others agree? >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>> >> >> -- >> Wayne V. Bickerdike >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
