Hans Rempel
----------
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Brian France
Sent: November 21, 2007 2:47 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: IFL's, VM, Suse, OH MY...
Tom,
Yes, I have forwarded Malcoms' info and links to management to
look at. We are still way to new to VM to consider what I know as
qualified but alas, I am the systems programmer for better or
worse. SO, I must ask, are you stating below that I can share a RES
vol with multiple VM LPARs? I have no idea what you mean by the CP
areas being what I need multiple copies of. I have to ass/u/me you
are referring to some minidisks.
I currently maintain two VM systems, one on each frame. They are
kept completely separate since one is prod and one is test. I
learned from an IBM'er how to rename vols and change parms to have a
520res, 520spl, and 520pag along with a VM7RES, VM7SPL, and VM7PAG.
I figured I'd have to create another set of these. So, if I
understood you correctly, would you please point me to some RTFM
material that I could peruse and hopefully put to use.
At 02:28 PM 11/21/2007, Tom Duerbusch wrote:
>From a VM dasd side....it is a trade off between having a
qualified VM Systems Programmer available, vs the costs of the
additional packs.
The vast majority of RES and WK1 packs are used to build and
maintain VM. You only need 1 copy of that. The CP areas is the
only areas that you need a copy per copy of VM running. (you might
want to add a copy of MAINT's 191 to that, but it really isn't necessary).
Now, is it worth it? Not really. DASD is really cheap
nowadays. But if you don't have the dasd available, then the next
pack is rather expensive <G>.
However, based on what Malcolm sent about subcapacity licensing for
zLinux, that looks like the way to go and it will solve your
concerns about multiple VM systems.
Tom Duerbusch
THD Consulting
Law of Cat Stretching
A cat will stretch to a distance proportional to the length of
the nap just taken.
>>> Brian France <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/21/2007 12:51 PM >>>
At 12:54 PM 11/21/2007, you wrote:
>Some of us to complain about that. That is, those of us that only
>use a part of an engine.
>
>On the other side, the cost of HATS on an IFL, on a per engine
>basis, is the same as the cost of an Intel engine (right?). So, in
>other words, the costs are the same... You just get more on our
>platform <G>. Management is use to it.
Costs I don't care much about. BUT from an admin point of view,
IF I have to run this product on it's own z/VM lpar, now I have to
create a another VM system using at least 3 volumes JUST for VM. I
have to set up another set of volumes for my shared root system
instead of being able to use my existing setup. NOT that I'm trying
to support the moped environment, but to run on a mainframe I should
be afforded the ability to run as suggested, limiting a machine to
one IFL virtually.
>The bigger problem is as you scale up the number of IFLs in a single
>box. And if you also scale up the number of packages
>used. Eventually, you need to buy separate boxes to keep software
>costs down as you add IFL engines.
BUT here again, building more VM's using up more dasd and from to
me a maint nightmare. BUT, it still beats the moped world...
>That is where talking to the venders so you don't get charged for
>every engine "can" come into play. I've heard it works, but I have
>no direct experience.
I'll try to let y'all know how my management makes out.
>Tom Duerbusch
>THD Consulting
>
>
>Law of Cat Stretching
>
> A cat will stretch to a distance proportional to the length of
> the nap just taken.
>
>
> >>> "McKown, John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 11/21/2007 10:49 AM >>>
>My mistake. The OP did says "keep costs down". Which the MACHINE
>directive will not do. It would only keep the CPU used by the HATS guest
>from exceeding a single IFL. The only way to "keep the costs down" (i.e.
>software licensing fees) is to remove an IFL entirely. I don't think
>that having multiple z/VMs in separate LPARs would reduce the software
>cost either.
>
>One of my main complaints about licensing by number of processors or
>"power" of the processor is this. The HATS license (and most others)
>will be the same given the same hardware configuration, even if it only
>use 5% of the CPU resource (with the other 95% being used by in-house
>applications). I would prefer a "consumption" license based on usage. Or
>perhaps a base license price for the product, irrespective of the
>processor, then an "add on" cost for normally scheduled maintenance,
>then perhaps a "per incident" cost for ad-hoc support. But people would
>complain about that as well, I guess.
>
>
>--
>John McKown
>Senior Systems Programmer
>HealthMarkets
>Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
>Administrative Services Group
>Information Technology
>
>This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
>content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
>should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
>based on it, is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
>[ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:39 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: IFL's, VM, Suse, OH MY...
>
>
>
> Note that although this works from a technical point of view,
>from a product licensing point of view, it likely would not. Vendors
>tend to be very picky when it comes to money, and would likely only be
>happy if the product was running in an LPAR with one IFL assigned to it.
>If the vendor is not too familiar with mainframes, I wouldn't be
>surprised to have them insist it be installed on a z9 equipped with only
>1 IFL.
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
>[ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McKown, John
> Sent: November 21, 2007 11:32
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: IFL's, VM, Suse, OH MY...
>
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>
> USER HATS
>
> MACHINE ESA 1
>
> ... other stuff
>
>
>
> will define a z/VM guest called HATS which only has a single CPU
>assigned to it.
>
>
>
> ref:
>
>
>
>
> http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/hcsg0b20/3.2 .
>35
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> John McKown
> Senior Systems Programmer
> HealthMarkets
> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> Administrative Services Group
> Information Technology
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
>content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you
>should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
>copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
>based on it, is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System
>[ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian France
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: IFL's, VM, Suse, OH MY...
>
> John,
> Yes, HATS run on MainFrameLinux using WAS. So, do I
>understand you in that I can assign two IFL's to my VM, and most of my
>MFL's could have access to both IFL's except for the MFL that runs HATS?
>I somehow assign a cpu to it in my USER DIRECT statements?
>
> At 11:03 AM 11/21/2007, McKown, John wrote:
>
>
>
> If HATS runs on Linux, then you could have a dedicated
>Linux guest for HATS. And in z/VM, you could assign a single virtual CPU
>to that Linux instance. That would restrict the HATS Linux system to run
>on a single CPU at a time (might switch from CPU to CPU, but only use
>one).
>
>
>
> --
> John McKown
> Senior Systems Programmer
> HealthMarkets
> Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
> Administrative Services Group
> Information Technology
>
> This message (including any attachments) contains
>confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose,
>and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended
>recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that
>any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking
>any action based on it, is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [
> mailto:[email protected] < mailto:[email protected]> ] On
>Behalf Of Brian France
>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:00 AM
>
> To: [email protected]
>
> Subject: IFL's, VM, Suse, OH MY...
>
> Folks,
>
> I've done about a 45 minute search and I think my
>answer is that I'd have to run multiple VM's per frame but wanted to
>ensure I was right. My management wants to run some product called HATS
>on our VM/MFL world. We recently upgraded from our z/890's with 1 IFL
>each to z9BC's with 2 IFL's each. I guess to keep costs down they want
>to run on one IFL this HATS worlds so the question to me was can I run a
>single VM with BOTH IFL's allocated but alot the HATS world only 1 IFL.
>Is this possible with VM config parms or some other way like maybe my
>HMC which I just thought of but haven't looked at yet. I know we have to
>lic Suse for more engines. Just more interested in is it even doable.
>THANX!!!!
>
> Brian W. France
>
> Systems Administrator (Mainframe)
>
> Pennsylvania State University
>
> Administrative Information Services - Infrastructure/S
>YSA RC
>
> Rm 25 Shields Bldg., University Park, Pa. 16802
>
> 814-863-4739
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first
>invent the universe."
>
> Carl Sagan
>
>
>
>
>
> Brian W. France
> Systems Administrator (Mainframe)
> Pennsylvania State University
> Administrative Information Services - Infrastructure/S
>YSA RC
> Rm 25 Shields Bldg., University Park, Pa. 16802
> 814-863-4739
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> "To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first
>invent the universe."
>
> Carl Sagan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
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Brian W. France
Systems Administrator (Mainframe)
Pennsylvania State University
Administrative Information Services - Infrastructure/SYSARC
Rm 25 Shields Bldg., University Park, Pa. 16802
814-863-4739
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
Carl Sagan
Brian W. France
Systems Administrator (Mainframe)
Pennsylvania State University
Administrative Information Services - Infrastructure/S YSA RC
Rm 25 Shields Bldg., University Park, Pa. 16802
814-863-4739
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"To make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
Carl Sagan
