Michael--Your comments regarding the organization of VM.IBM.COM/library are right on the mark but not only for that site and the documents on it but for VM documentation in general. I have suggested here on the list or in off-list correspondence that the doc should be reviewed by people who are not longtime doc writers/reviewers. The goal, I think, should be to permit inexperienced, newcomers to be able to navigate thru the doc and find what is needed. Often the newbies are getting into VM just because they're the MVS guys in the shop or a *IX sysadmin who needs to be able to install LINUX on VM. At the other end of the spectrum is the "experienced", and I don't necessarily mean the expert, person who is trying to install the newest release and is frustrated because (s)he SERVICE and PUT2PROD are pushed, for the benefit of the newbie, but there is no escape hatch in the process. No way to enter SERVICE and then stop at some point. It would be nice to have a Service procedure that's half way between SERVICE and pure SES.

Reviewers should be imported, either from down the hall in Endicott or buy a few airline tickets, from outside the usual ranks and should be the inexperienced type and the experienced user. You and I may be in that category. I've supported VM for 30 years but only put up a new release every year or two. So I'm not the doc expert who incrementally "improves" the doc doesn't realize that the gradual changes all add up and I'm not the developer like John Franciscovich who probably doesn't have to ever look at a manual or the long time Beta tester just as Jim Vincent who is pretty much in the Franciscovich category.

Jim

Michael Coffin wrote:
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Thanks much!
I've always found it confusing the way the various documents are
organized on vm.ibm.com/library.  I'd LOVE to be able to (for example)
click z/VM 5.4 and be presented with a list of ALL documents for z/VM5.4
and ALL versions of ALL LPP's versioned for 5.4, with the system
determining which version was current for the selected release (even if
it hasn't been updated in many years).  I'm a 25+ year VM veteran, so I
know what to look for (and often where to look, but not always!) but I'm
trying to imagine a VM newbie trying to understand that he'll find the
z/VM "core" documents in one place, the Program Directories in another,
and the LPP doc any number of places (and sometimes they don't exist at
all, e.g. SC26-7181-03 IBM Extended Facilities Product, Installation for
VM, Version 2 Release 1 - it's a VM document and I believe IFXP is still
supported, but good luck trying to find it on vm.ibm.com/library in any
of the various sections).
Just food for thought on future changes to the library. Pretend you are
a newbie and try to find some documents, particularly older documents.
:)
-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Michael Forte
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: z/VM 5.4 Guide For Automated Installation and Service



Hello Mike,
I was able to pull a few strings and have the z/VM V5.4 Guide for
Automated Installation and Service, as well as the two summaries, added
directly to the z/VM library page.
The reason why you cannot find them as part of the PDF library is
because that library contains the contents of the z/VM collection on
CD-ROM. The installation publications are not part of the z/VM
collection due to the nature of their schedules.
Going forward, you will be able to find them on the z/VM library page,
in the z/VM information center, or through the IBM Publications Center.
z/VM library:  <http://www.vm.ibm.com/library/>
http://www.vm.ibm.com/library/ IBM Publications Center:
<http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?SSN=08IWU
0035736528384&FNC=TXT>
http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?SSN=08IWU0
035736528384&FNC=TXT
Thank you!
Michael J. Forte
z/VM ID and POK Softcopy Support
Software Engineer, System z Information Solutions 58HA
IBM Poughkeepsie, New York
 <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Office: 845-435-9062, T/L: 295-9062
Cell: 845-702-7962
Fax: 845-432-9405

P181, 2455 South Road, Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
Building 052, B09

"Often those who work the hardest are the luckiest..."
The IBM z/VM Operating System <[email protected]> wrote on
09/16/2008 11:46:13 AM:

[image removed] Re: z/VM 5.4 Guide For Automated Installation and Service Michael Coffin to: IBMVM 09/16/2008 11:46 AM Sent by: The IBM z/VM Operating System <[email protected]> Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System
Hi Rich,

THANKS so much!  And yup, if you go to the Information Center and THEN
click Available PDF Docs from there, it's on the list.  If you just
select the PDF Library for z/VM 5.4 from www.vm.ibm.com/library it is
not.

Now I don't have to wait for Fedex to delivery my hardcopy!  :)

-Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [ <mailto:[email protected]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rich Smrcina
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 10:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: z/VM 5.4 Guide For Automated Installation and Service


I found it in the z/VM 5.4 Information Center.

Michael Coffin wrote:
Hi Folks,
Can anyone tell me if the z/VM 5.4 Guide For Automated Installation and
Service is on www.vm.ibm.com/library <
<http://www.vm.ibm.com/library> http://www.vm.ibm.com/library>
somewhere and I'm just not seeing it? It's definitely not in the 5.4 PDF Library. When I look in the Additional z/VM Publications area I can find a 5.3 version, but no 5.4........... (has this Guide not changed for 5.4?). -Thanks -Mike
--
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
Ans Service:  360-715-2467
rich.smrcina at vmassist.com  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina>
http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina
Catch the WAVV!   <http://www.wavv.org/> http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2009 - Orlando, FL - May 15-19, 2009



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<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.5626" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks much!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I've=20
always found it confusing the way the various documents are organized on =

vm.ibm.com/library.&nbsp; I'd LOVE to be able to (for example) click =
z/VM 5.4=20
and be presented with a list of ALL documents for z/VM5.4 and ALL =
versions of=20
ALL LPP's versioned for 5.4, with the system determining which version =
was=20
current for the selected release (even if it hasn't been updated in many =

years).&nbsp; I'm a 25+ year VM veteran, so I know what to look for (and =
often=20
where to look, but not always!) but I'm trying to imagine a VM newbie =
trying to=20
understand that he'll find the z/VM "core" documents in one place, the =
Program=20
Directories in another, and the LPP doc any number of places (and =
sometimes they=20
don't exist at all, e.g. SC26-7181-03 IBM Extended Facilities Product,=20
Installation for VM, Version 2 Release 1 - it's a VM document and I =
believe IFXP=20
is still supported, but good luck trying to find it on =
vm.ibm.com/library in any=20
of the various sections).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Just=20
food for thought on future changes to the library.&nbsp; Pretend you are =
a=20
newbie and try to find some documents, particularly older =
documents.&nbsp;=20
:)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D579023915-24092008><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>-Mike</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> The =
IBM z/VM=20
  Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <B>On Behalf Of =
</B>Michael=20
  Forte<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:53 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: z/VM 5.4 Guide For =
Automated=20
  Installation and Service<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>Hello Mike,</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>I =
was able to=20
  pull a few strings and have the z/VM V5.4 Guide for Automated =
Installation and=20
  Service, as well as the two summaries, added directly to the z/VM =
library=20
  page.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>The reason why =
you cannot=20
  find them as part of the PDF library is because that library contains =
the=20
  contents of the z/VM collection on CD-ROM. The installation =
publications are=20
  not part of the z/VM collection due to the nature of their schedules.=20
  </FONT><BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Going forward, you =
will be able to=20
  find them on the z/VM library page, in the z/VM information center, or =
through=20
  the IBM Publications Center.</FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><B>z/VM library:</B> </FONT><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.vm.ibm.com/library/";><FONT face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2>http://www.vm.ibm.com/library/</FONT></A> <BR><FONT =
face=3Dsans-serif=20
  size=3D2><B>IBM Publications Center:</B> </FONT><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?SSN=
=3D08IWU0035736528384&amp;FNC=3DTXT"><FONT=20
  face=3Dsans-serif=20
  =
size=3D2>http://www.elink.ibmlink.ibm.com/publications/servlet/pbi.wss?SS=
N=3D08IWU0035736528384&amp;FNC=3DTXT</FONT></A>=20
  <BR><BR><FONT face=3Dsans-serif size=3D2>Thank you!<BR></FONT><FONT =
face=3DVerdana=20
  size=3D2><B>Michael J. Forte</B></FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana =
size=3D1><BR>z/VM ID and=20
  POK Softcopy Support<BR>Software Engineer, System z Information =
Solutions=20
  58HA<BR>IBM Poughkeepsie, New York</FONT><FONT face=3DVerdana =
color=3Dblue=20
  size=3D1><U><BR></U></FONT><A href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"><FONT =

  face=3DVerdana color=3Dblue =
size=3D1><U>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</U></FONT></A><FONT=20
  face=3DVerdana size=3D1><BR><BR>Office: 845-435-9062, T/L: =
295-9062<BR>Cell:=20
  845-702-7962<BR>Fax: 845-432-9405<BR><BR>P181, 2455 South Road, =
Poughkeepsie,=20
  NY 12601<BR>Building 052, B09<BR><BR>"Often those who work the hardest =
are the=20
  luckiest..." </FONT><BR><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>The IBM z/VM Operating =
System=20
  &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote on 09/16/2008 11:46:13 =
AM:<BR><BR>&gt;=20
  [image removed] </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Re: =
z/VM 5.4=20
  Guide For Automated Installation and Service</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT =

  size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michael Coffin </FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; to:</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
IBMVM</FONT></TT>=20
  <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; 09/16/2008 11:46 AM</FONT></TT>=20
  <BR><TT><FONT size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sent by:</FONT></TT> =
<BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; The IBM z/VM Operating System=20
  &lt;[email protected]&gt;</FONT></TT> <BR><TT><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt;=20
  Please respond to The IBM z/VM Operating System</FONT></TT> =
<BR><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hi Rich,<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; THANKS so much! =
&nbsp;And yup,=20
  if you go to the Information Center and THEN<BR>&gt; click Available =
PDF Docs=20
  from there, it's on the list. &nbsp;If you just<BR>&gt; select the PDF =
Library=20
  for z/VM 5.4 from </FONT></TT><A =
href=3D"www.vm.ibm.com/library"><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>www.vm.ibm.com/library</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT size=3D2> it =
is<BR>&gt;=20
  not.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now I don't have to wait for Fedex to delivery =
my=20
  hardcopy! &nbsp;:)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -Mike<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR>&gt; From: The IBM z/VM Operating System =
[</FONT></TT><A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email protected]";><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>mailto:[email protected]</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT =
size=3D2>]=20
  On<BR>&gt; Behalf Of Rich Smrcina<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, September 16, =
2008=20
  10:50 AM<BR>&gt; To: [email protected]<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: z/VM =
5.4=20
  Guide For Automated Installation and Service<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; =
I found=20
  it in the z/VM 5.4 Information Center.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Michael Coffin =

  wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hi Folks,<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &gt; Can =
anyone tell=20
  me if the z/VM 5.4 Guide For Automated Installation <BR>&gt; &gt; =
and<BR>&gt;=20
  &gt; Service is on </FONT></TT><A =
href=3D"www.vm.ibm.com/library"><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>www.vm.ibm.com/library</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT size=3D2>=20
  &lt;</FONT></TT><A href=3D"http://www.vm.ibm.com/library";><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>http://www.vm.ibm.com/library</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT =
size=3D2>&gt;=20
  <BR>&gt; &gt; somewhere and I'm just not seeing it? <BR>&gt; &gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &gt; It's definitely not in the 5.4 PDF Library. =
&nbsp;When I=20
  look in the<BR>&gt; &gt; Additional z/VM Publications area I can find =
a 5.3=20
  version, &nbsp;but no <BR>&gt; &gt; 5.4........... (has this Guide not =
changed=20
  for 5.4?).<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &gt; -Thanks<BR>&gt; &gt;=20
  &nbsp;<BR>&gt; &gt; -Mike<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Rich =
Smrcina<BR>&gt; VM=20
  Assist, Inc.<BR>&gt; Phone: 414-491-6001<BR>&gt; Ans Service:=20
  &nbsp;360-715-2467<BR>&gt; rich.smrcina at vmassist.com </FONT></TT><A =

  href=3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina";><TT><FONT=20
  =
size=3D2>http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT =

  size=3D2><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Catch the WAVV! &nbsp;</FONT></TT><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.wavv.org/";><TT><FONT=20
  size=3D2>http://www.wavv.org</FONT></TT></A><TT><FONT =
size=3D2><BR>&gt; WAVV 2009=20
  - Orlando, FL - May 15-19, =
2009<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TT></BODY></HTML>

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--
Jim Bohnsack
Cornell University
(972) 596-6377 home/office
(972) 342-5823 cell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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