I believe they also made use of fibreglass chop to thicken areas up. (An inferior but cheaper way to build fibreglass thickness.) On my 1986 the bridgedeck/companionway below where the hatchboards sit is that way. Don't know where else. We drilled holes through to put padeyes (for harnesses) in. About two inches thick, most of it what appeared to be no-laminate pink chop. But with regard to the hull as said I've seen a core and it was solid laminate.
But not of the highest quality. Lots of sharp ragged edges on the inside. Lots of voids. After they changed the formula in the early 80's, blisters. And when the boat heals no barrier between the bilge and the side cabin lockers. I used to scratch my head wondering why my port locker was wet. Turned out whenever I healed hard, the water in the bilge ran above the interior tabbed in bottom section, along the side, and into the locker. I added glass sheets up about a foot to cure the problem. (look under the stove at the hull-to-pan connection to see what I'm talking about). Note, I think that problems aside, for the money IMHO it was and continues to be a great value. John Harker C27 Prana #6261 Santa Cruz [email protected] wrote: > > > Dan > > No mystery - and no, a core is not necessarily a bad thing. It all > depends on core material, panel design and stiffness (techie for how > strong vs flexible it is). The biggest problem with a cored hull is > the same as with our plywood cored decks - water gets in and the meat > in the sandwich fails, or the bond with the skins fails. Water > typically gets in not through damage (although that's a good way) but > through improperly sealed penetrations. On the deck it's hardware, > wires, etc. In the hull it's through hulls, vents, shaft logs, etc. > Balsa core material just rots when it's wet. Some foams actually can > be eaten by anaerobic bugs, but for a foam cored hull the failure mode > is usually due to freeze/thaw cycles. Of course, the reason to core > the hull is greater strength with less weight, and when the core is > soaked that weight benefit is gone. (One of my other boats is a > Hinckley built in '59/'60. There I still haven't fount even a block > laminated in. Everything from the coach roof to keel is solid glass > laminate - and the boat launched a couple 1000 lbs heavy.) > > Back to the core in the Catalina 27. The entire 6600+ run of Catalina > 27's was built without cored hulls. All of them had cored decks, > various combinations of plywood and balsa. I believe that it is a fact > that all catalina's built before 1984 of 34ft or less were built with > solid hulls. I know this is true for the 22, 25, 27, 30 and 34. What > happened as the Mark II's came along I do not know - I can't afford > anything that new. > > That said, as pointed out by Jack Horner in one of his reviews, > Catalina makes considerable use of modular fiberglass liners and > structural grids. These make it difficult, if not impossible, to > thoroughly inspect structural components of the vessel, and everywhere > they get glued together or are supporting each other you will find > filler putty, wood blocks, and maybe some structural foam. Notable > places (other than the deck) where this causes problems are in the > keel sump, under the compression post, and where the liner meets the > hull at the margins of the cabin sole. > > So yeah, you can hit "stuff" when you drill random holes from inside > to out (or vice versa), but no, there's no core (although again, > that's not necessarily bad). > > You gonna come race next year :>) > > Regards > Peter Z > Catalina 27 owner, former fleet capt., & P.E. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Hardiman <[email protected] > <mailto:hardimandan%40yahoo.com>> > To: [email protected] <mailto:IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010 4:06 pm > Subject: Re: [IC27A] Possible purchase of a C27 > > >>You'll are certainly welcome to believe whatever suit you best. My > > experience is that I have yet to work on a Catalina that does not have > a foam > > core. > > My '79 C27 definitely does not have a foam core and I have the samples > to prove it! Maybe the newer boats have foam cores. Is that really a > bad thing? > > Dan Hardiman > C27 #4149 > Back Creek, Annapolis > > --- On Mon, 1/25/10, Mark Robertson <[email protected] > <mailto:mrobertson%40utah.gov>> wrote: > > From: Mark Robertson <[email protected] <mailto:mrobertson%40utah.gov>> > Subject: Re: [IC27A] Possible purchase of a C27 > To: [email protected] <mailto:IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 10:13 AM > > I bought my 81 c27 in Long Beach California last summer with roller > furling and a new 9.9 merc for $3,500. There are a lot of good deals > out there if you watch and take your time. I found a 73 that I could > have picked up for $500.00 but I wanted a boat that did not need a ton > of work. > > >>> <masad...@aol. com> 1/24/2010 5:46 PM >>> > > Bloody Mary #2381, a '76 C-27 is a solid fiberglass hull. Just the deck > > is cored. > > Chuck > > chicago > > In a message dated 1/24/2010 5:02:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, > > rose26...@bellsouth .net writes: > > Gentlemen, > > You'll are certainly welcome to believe whatever suit you best. My > > experience is that I have yet to work on a Catalina that does not have > a foam > > core. Perhaps there are some out there? I am not familiar with them. I > have > > only worked on C-22, C-25, C-27, C-30, Capri 22, Capri 25, Capri 26, > Capri 30, > > and C-28. Without fail all of these had foam cores, maybe Catalina just > > put foam cores in the ones they sent to Ga and SC? > > Best Regards > > joe rose > > --- On Sun, 1/24/10, _mikea...@verizon. mik_ (mailto:mikea...@verizon. > net) > > <_mikea...@verizon. mik_ (mailto:mikea...@verizon. net) > wrote: > > From: _mikea...@verizon. mik_ (mailto:mikea...@verizon. net) > > <_mikea...@verizon. mik_ (mailto:mikea...@verizon. net) > > > Subject: Re: [IC27A] Re: Possible purchase of a C27 > > To: _ic...@yahoogroups. IC2_ (mailto:ic...@yahoogroups. com) > > Date: Sunday, January 24, 2010, 1:07 AM > > Solid fiberglass and tapers from waterline up. Deck is plywood cored. > > Catalina mid 80's is notorios for blisters due to production > issues...water in > > bildge would not cause the blisters! Also being that those keel bolts > will > > rust, its best to keep that bilge bone dry, it is possible. > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Harker <jhar...@sbcglobal. net> > > Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 21:53:56 > > To: <ic...@yahoogroups. com> > > Subject: Re: [IC27A] Re: Possible purchase of a C27 > > Where did you get the idea that the Catalina 27 had a foam core hull? > > It doesn't. I've seen a cutout and it is about an inch thick solid > > fiberglass near (but not too near) the keel. Interesting conjecture > > that water in the bilge contributes to blisters though, I think there > > might be some truth to that. > > John Harker C27 'Prana' #6261 Santa Cruz > > JOE ROSE wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Doug, > > > I need to introduce myself here as well. I just joined the C-27 owners > > > as well. I have a small boatyard here in western SC where we work on > > > primarily sail boats. We regularly do jobs ranging from simple bottom > > > work to complete restorations. I also own a C-25, C-27 and several > > > other brands as well. At this time our C-27 is our primary boat ans we > > > absolutely love it. > > > > > > I would like to share some experience from, perhaps a different > > > perspective. > > > First off when buying a boat there is no such thing as normal > > > blistering. Almost invariably, boats that keep a dry bilge will have > > > no or very few blisters and it makes no difference about the brand. > > > Transversely boats that have a wet bilge will almost invariably have a > > > belly full of blisters depending on how long it's been since the last > > > bottom job. Blisters are expensive to fix and it is very difficult to > > > dry out a Catalina hull. Catalina's have a foam core that absorbs > > > water like you simply would not believe. I have a Capri 25 in the > > > slings right now that I opened all the blisters, tented it out and > > > used dehumidifiers (2) and two fans on for over two months before we > > > got all the water out. That is around 50 gallons of water, and the > > > bigger the boat the more area it has to absorb water. I start here as > > > this is likely your biggest and most time consuming expense. Around > > > here blisters run between $2.5-10. each depending on how deep they are. > > > Next, the nuts on the keel look terrible, but more often than not it > > > something of an illusion. The last one we did, after properly sitting > > > the boat on it's keel we simple removed the old nuts and reinstalled > > > new stainless nuts. This is still pretty time consuming project even > > > with all the proper tools and a crane to lift with. This is likely > > > going to be a job for a yard unless you have a way to lift the boat so > > > as to get full contact on the bottom of the keel. > > > Next, a new mainsail even with my 20% discount it is going to be > > > expensive. I used to send all my sails out to Sail Care in Ford City > > > Pa. They would come back and look wonderful, but what I finaly figured > > > out is that, while they look great, they don't sail any better. A > > > blown out sail is blown out, at that point it will heel the boat more > > > than driving it. This sail is the most important means of propulsion > > > on the boat. It amazes me how often people will gladly spend money on > > > cosmetics and neglect the sails all together. > > > OK, lets look at a more overall view. I am assuming you will do the > > > bottom on any boat you buy so we'll leave that out. > > > 3k for the boat > > > 2K for blisters (avg =200) > > > 1.5K new main > > > 1K new electronics > > > 1K new halyards, window/hatch reseal kits etc. > > > So now we are at $8500.00 +/- and we have yet to address anything to > > > do with the engine, cushions, or the rotten bulkhead. > > > The only problem I have with this math is that when finished you will > > > have a fine boat that would be worth around 10K if you sold it and you > > > had to do all the work, so where is the incentive to do this? If you > > > were to value your time in here at even $25 per hour the cost of this > > > boat is pretty upside down. > > > Right now there are some really good boats out the for less than they > > > normally bring due to the economy being in the crapper. > > > On the other hand if you are one of the bonehead people (like > > > myself) who actually love working on boats and consider it privilegege > > > rather than a chore, then by all means grab this thing up. Restoring > > > boats makes no financial sense whatsoever, but it is quite gratifying > > > to stand back and look at my work. Keep in mind here that doing things > > > right takes alot more time than we are used to. > > > Best Regards > > > joe rose > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/23/10, Don Burnett <donjam...@aol. com > > > <mailto:DonJamBur% 40aol.com> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Don Burnett <donjam...@aol. com <mailto:DonJamBur% 40aol.com> > > > > Subject: Re:[IC27A] Re: Possible purchase of a C27 > > > To: "ic...@yahoogroups. com <mailto:IC27A% 40yahoogroups. com>" > > > <ic...@yahoogroups. com <mailto:IC27A% 40yahoogroups. com>> > > > Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 3:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug. The rigging (and engine) are key evals. Rigging keeps the mast > > > up w compression all manner of forces. Most of what you listed is > > > "expected" more or less. Blisters could be an issue depending on > > > scope. You may want to sister in some addl keel bots and the rest of > > > labor you'll need to invest is not insignificant and a pain such as > > > leaking ports or windows. Roller furling us a big plus if not racing > > > and that's $1.5k or so. Running rigging not cheap either. Do it up > > > right. Bottom line - wait for balance of survey and DO negotiate it > > > down. Walk if you need to. Price of survey is worth every penny if > > > done well and it sounds good. Don't forget to ask for moisture > > > readings that a good surveyor will do for deck, rudder etc. I know > > > you want a boat and seller knows it too. Hang tough. You've got a lot > > > of "work" ahead of you. Assess your willingness to invest the time and > > > think about if you want to be sailing or working on boat. Perhaps > > > there will be another better suited to your pref. I love my c27 and > > > you will too. Just keep it real and maintain some distance and > > > perspective. > > > > > > Don > > > 1981 #4855 > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On Jan 23, 2010, at 11:06, "Doug" <dj2...@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > > > > > Well we had the survey yesterday which I was present for and lasted > > > > all day. The boat was hauled and the bottom was inspected. Still > > > > waiting for the service guy to evaluate the engine. I don't yet have > > > > the write up > > > > Findings so far (most I knew about) are; > > > > 1. Very neglected 1-2 yrs, spider webs, mud dauber nests, water in > > > > bilge, etc > > > > 2. Keel bolts are SS but nut are steel and are very deteriorated > > > > 3. Mainsail very dirty, stained in fair condition > > > > 4. !50, 110 hank on sails very good condition (5-6 yrs old) > > > > 5. Sail cover shredded, non usable > > > > 6. All ports leaking > > > > 7. Lifelines in good condition > > > > 8. Electronics non working (wind speed, direction, depth, boat speed) > > > > 9. Dead Batteries but battery charger good > > > > 10. All electrical systems work > > > > 11. Bottom looks ok ('normal' amount of blisters?) Keel straight, > > > > minimal slop in rudder, cutlass bearing ok > > > > 12. Most lines needs updating. > > > > 13. rigging-I had to leave so have to wait till I get the survey > > > > paper. > > > > 14. waste tank ok but the hoses need redoing. > > > > 15. water tank- ok > > > > 16. Fuel tank ok but needs new filler hose. There appears to be no > > > > fuel filter in line to engine. > > > > > > > > If the engine evaluation comes back ok, good compression, etc then I > > > > am still very interested. > > > > This boat was listed for $9750.00 and I offered 5k contingent upon > > > > survey. The surveyor siad he would probably value it less maybe 3k. > > > > Do you think I should re-negotiate less? > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > --- In ic...@yahoogroups. com, "dj2210" <dj2...@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > I just wanted to introduce myself. I have a deposit on a 1982 C27 > > > > standard rig. This Friday we will haul and survey so maybe will own > > > > it this weekend. She will be sailed in east TN after I do whatever > > > > needs doing. The first thing will be the port bulkhead due to rot at > > > > the chain plate. (Finding some marine ply might be a problem) This > > > > boat looks ok but has not been sailed for at least a year so needs a > > > > lot of attention. New running lines, new cushions, sealing the > > > > ports, etc, you get the idea. It has an A4 that has not been started > > > > for some time. I will probably have questions as we come across > > > > problem areas but this site and links has so far given me a wealth > > > > of info. > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
