Has any 270 owner with an Auto Helm ST 4000 installed the rudder sensor in an effort to help the pilot hold the course? If so, any suggestions on the installation would be appreciated. These are excellent tips Phil and I am looking forward to trying them out on the Bay soon. Herb Clark [email protected]
Chico Yacht Club s/v Imagine - Catalina 270 s/v Hotel Charlie - Catalina 25' d/s Coyote - Coronado 15' "Why sail a blow when I can tow?" On Mar 3, 2010, at 3:41 PM, Phil Agur wrote: > Ron, > > It's sure nice they gave you an upwind slip. It makes it very nice. > When you > get docking down you'll find you can just slide her in and stop > without > anyone jumping to catch the boat. When there's a good breeze I've > been known > to settle the bow into the slip and then leave her in gear while I > get a > line tied off. We have 4 cleats so I use 4 very long lines. The > loop ends > are is set to loosely go to the nearest boat cleat and the tail, > with the > bitter end, gets used as spring lines to the other end of the boat. > We on > occasion can get 4 foot rollers at the docks so it's important the > short > lines can allow a lot of motion and the springs lines keep her from > overhanging the dock. If you every come down to the boat and find > the line > has a tight bend in the middle it's been snapping taught while you > were > away. I also use 3 strand not double braid dock lines to allow more > give. > The dock side fingers failed in one such storm and she ate her way > about a > foot into the main dock over a 4 hour period. When I took her in > for repairs > and the shop was disappointed to find all she had was scratched gel > coat. > The structural glass was untouched. > > The ST400 is a great auto helm but has a ton of adjustments the can be > changed to fine tune it to a particular model boat. Herb and I both > went > through turning the auto helm gain down so it didn't over correct > and start > hunting. The C270 has a very effective rudder, Catalina's first > semi-elliptical design, and I suspect it just has more lift than they > expected. Herb and I are both wing keels and you can cause our > boats to roll > almost enough to throw the rail in the water just by rhythmicly > turning the > wheel back and forth when motoring. The deep keel should be less > prone to > this. I first found it a storm blowing about 40 coming down San > Pablo Bay. I > took us through the main part and my wife took over as we turned > into the > north end of SF Bay. The boat had a fair amount of roll going on as > she > quartered waves and then I noticed it looked like the roll was in > response > to my wife turning the wheel. I told to her to stop, she looked at > me like I > was crazy as it was still blow 35-40 knots, but when she did the boat > stopped the roll and just started cutting through the waves. Wow, > it was > like the storm was over (PS: We have lots of canvas, dodger, > bimini, and > side panels so we were dry) and the rest of the trip was a blast. > > The question will be on your auto helm is it over correcting and > fighting > itself or is it under correcting after the PO turned the gain down > before > you got the boat. The reason I asked about the sail inventory is > the way our > boat is set up (135%+main) she will literally sail herself. If you > center > the wheel (lock it) and trim the sails she'll alter course until > the ribbon > on the sail are flying. Want sail a closer to the wind just trim in > and she > will head up until the ribbons are flying again. I was told this > when we > first got Wing Tip and it didn't match anything I knew first hand so I > ignored for couple of years. Then one day when we were sailing on > the auto > helm I started to get annoyed by its constant hunting back and > forth so I > hit [Stand By] and waited for it to get off course and it never > did. Could > it be Bruce was right? So I re-trimmed the sails, the ribbons went > limp, but > 20 - 30 seconds later they were back flying. I discovered over time > she > wasn't fast like this unit you gave her just a little rudder to > pull her off > the wind a bit and then she flew. > > The classic failure mode for an auto helm is down wind in a > following sea. > If I remember correctly you can even get a reverse water flow > across the > rudder as a wave passes under. Our smaller boats with tiller auto > helm all > lost control under these conditions but we've never had the ST4000 > lose > control of Wing Tip. I can't truthfully say whether it been my > skippering > avoiding getting the boat into those conditions or just the > effectiveness of > the rudder auto helm combination. > > Phil Agur > <http://www.catalina27.org/public_pages/profile270.htm> s/v Wing Tip > C270 LE #184 MMSI 366901790 > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Ron > Ginter > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 8:05 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [IC27A] Newbie onboard > > Hi Phil, and thanks for the tips. > > I did most of my early sailing on Lake Erie, where you can usually > see a > storm coming from a long way off. We got fooled once when we were in a > particularly intense race, and were on the final leg on a run with > the chute > up, and suddenly we felt the air change, looked behind us and said > "Oh sh*t" > The spinnaker ended up flying from the top of the mast because we > either had > to release the sheets or have it split. After about a 15 min. blow, > it was > over, we gathered the sail in, and finished the race. I've never > been a big > fan of polarized sunglasses, so I won't need to change. > > I will practice spinning the boat. The marina gave us a slip that > is pretty > much straight in, since we were newbies. > > My big embarrassing story has a minor and a major component. After > a few > exhilirating hours of sailing, we headed back toward the harbour > channel. It > was gusting upwards of 20 knots, and we were booting along at 6+ > knots, a > little hairier than I would have chosen for my first sail. But it > was fine, > and I was getting the groove back. As we neared the channel, I > mentally > reviewed the steps for dropping the main, furling the jib, and > starting the > motor. Wait, the motor won't start! I had forgotten to push the red > handle > back down when we went out, and I was just about to come about when I > realized my error. That's the minor part. > > As we motored up to the slip, the wind was coming from the > starboard bow, > pushing us back and away from the slip. I had never docked a boat > this size > before! So my mate had the docking lines ready, and I brought the > boat right > up alongside the slip, she jumped off while holding the lines, I > popped it > into reverse to stop the boat, and all was well. I jumped off to > help tie > the boat off, but it didn't want to stay at the slip. In spite of > both of us > pulling on the lines, the boat was determined to back out away from > the > slip. I thought it was the wind, and couldn't understand how it > could be so > strong. The boat started to turn around the end of the slip due to me > pulling on the line, and was in danger of hitting the nice 35 > footer on the > other side of the slip. At the last moment, I realized I'd better > jump back > on the boat, or I'd lose it. With the docking lines released, the boat > missed the other one, and just kept backing out across the water. I > reached > down to put the motor into gear, and realized to my horror that it > had been > idling in reverse the whole time! Oops! So I just spun her around, > came into > the slip again, made sure it was actually in neutral this time, and > the > docking went much much smoother. Lesson learned. > > The boat has the fin keel, if that is the deep one. The sails (I'm > assuming) > are the standard ones, with the foresail appearing to be about a 135 > (?) I > notice that due to the track length and position, it wouldn't be > possible to > run a big genoa. The autohelm is a ST4000+. I don't know if the + > means > anything. I noticed that when the wind was shifting, it had difficulty > keeping the boat on course, but having never had autohelm before, I > don't > know how well they're supposed to work. > > ...Ron > > On 2010 Mar 02, at 2:22 AM, Phil Agur wrote: > > > Hi Ron, > > > > > > > > Welcome aboard! > > > > > > > > Herb is just down the block compared to Lake Ontario. I bet I can > top > you're > > first time out story, if I can remember it at this point. > > > > > > > > I've probably got two important pieces of advice as a starting > point. > > > > 1. When the snow clears put away your polarized sun glasses. > > > > . Sudden changes in wind direction or wind intensity change how the > > light reflects off the water making the water appear to change > colors. > > > > . That color change is an early warning to skippers who can then > > react to the changes before they hit. (Get crew to a safer > location, get > the > > main uncleated, furl the head sail, etc.) > > > > . Polarized sunglasses by blocking reflected light minimize or > > eliminate color changes on the water surface and force you to be > reactive > > not proactive. > > > > 2. Learn how to turn the boat in its own length to allow maneuvering > > with zero boat speed. > > > > . The boat will spin like a bandit starboard (clockwise looking > > down). > > > > . Against all logic, learn how to spin the boat to port. This takes > > twice the effort but works. > > > > . Dozens of bad docking scenarios can be easily overcome if you > > could just stop and turn the boat to a new direction on a dime > > > > . In fact the famous yacht club docking maneuver from the movie > > Captain Ron is just a variation of spinning the boat. > > > > . Typically I'll run a test for how the wind and current is going to > > affect my docking just before I get in alley and let the drift > line me up. > > > > > > > > Which keel and what sail inventory do you have? Wing Tip is of > course a > > wing keel but I've been dying to talk about how the boat sails > with a fin > > keel owner. > > > > Do you have an auto helm? As Herb will attest it takes a little > work to > get > > the auto helm to relax enough to sail a C270 comfortably. The > rudder is > far > > more effective than the typical ST4000 install making it very > twitchy. > > > > > > > > Phil Agur > > <http://www.catalina27.org/public_pages/profile270.htm> s/v Wing Tip > > C270 LE #184 MMSI 366901790 > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] <mailto:IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> ] On > Behalf > Of Ron > > Ginter > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 7:31 PM > > To: [email protected] <mailto:IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: [IC27A] Newbie onboard > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > I've been lurking all winter and thought it was time that I finally > > introduce myself. I took possession of a 2004 C270 on Labour Day, > and I'm > > thrilled to bits! I spent several years on a racing crew on a > C&C25, but > > that was more years ago than I care to admit. In the intervening > time, I > > always wanted to get my own boat, but was married to someone who > made it > > very clear that if I ever bought one, I'd be alone on it. In the > interest > of > > marital harmony, I put the whole sailing thing on the back > burner, and > > contented myself with riding my Ducatis. > > > > Now, that someone is an ex-spouse, and I'm finally free to > realize my > dream. > > I have a girlfriend/partner who is enthusiastic about sailing, > and we're > > already looking forward to many happy hours out on Lake Ontario. > The boat > > practically threw itself at me! When we went to have a > "preliminary" look > at > > a marina, it was the first boat we saw, and it was the size I > wanted. > Plus, > > it had just been reduced in price. We looked at several other > boats, but > > kept coming back to this one. I put in a low-ball offer that was > accepted, > > the financing fell into place easier than I expected, and > suddenly I'm a > > boat owner! It's like new, and has been lightly used over its > short life. > > > > I have much to learn, and have already picked up a lot of good > info by > > monitoring this group. However, it seems that everyone has the > C27. Are > > there other C270 owners besides Phil? > > > > Anyway, I will have many questions as spring rolls around. Back in > > September, we had wonderful weather in this area, so I got to > sail for a > > month before having to put it away for the winter. I have never > been the > > skipper before, and have only had to concern myself with my > specific job > on > > the racing crew, so there are large gaps in my knowledge now that > I'm the > > guy in charge. I'll relate a couple of amusing stories about my > first time > > out after the embarrassment eases a bit! <g> > > > > ...Ron (Oculus) > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IC27A/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IC27A/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
