I believe I have my original M 18 Marine Diesel Owners manual and for the engine with Hurth HBW-50 (2:1) transmission, I see this caution on p.40: "DO NOT LEAVE IN GEAR IN FORWARD WHEN SAILING. GEAR MUST BE IN NEUTRAL FOR FREE WHEELING OR SHIFTED INTO REVERSE TO LOCK PROPELLER WHILE SAILING."
Now I also downloaded a Hurth HBW-50 owners manual. In section 2. Boat sailing, moving in tow or anchoring. ..."Use shift position opposition opposite to direction of travel for locking the propeller shaft, otherwise the transmission will be damaged."... (So when I sail backwards I always put it in forward....#$%...@#^). Nothing conclusive....but not in forward. Wasn't there a discussion some time ago on what has less drag, a free wheeling prop or a locked in position prop?? And the answer was a locked prop by just a little bit. Of course, locked in line with the strut would be best. Sorry about the premature "send". Regards, Ted #6015, Roger T., sailing out of BCYC, Saginaw Bay On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Ted Perreault <[email protected]>wrote: > I believe I have the original M 18 Marine Diesel Owners manual and for the > engine with Hurth HBW-50 (2:1) transmission is see this caution on p.40: " > > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 11:53 AM, John Jennings <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> >> >> Alon >> >> I knew my comment about leaving the tranny in neutral would create some >> interest. I have heard prior comments on the subject and I understand the >> potential downfall of a spinning prop and the inpact on the tranny. >> However, the instructional manual for the 5411 specifically advises the >> tranny can be left in neutral. Also just recently another member on this >> site published a note advising another engine manufacture instructs owners >> the tranny can be left in neutral while sailing. In any event, life is >> short and I do not want the unnecessary drag of a stationary three bladed >> prop. It may cost me down the road. >> >> John J. >> >> >> Mar 31, 2010 08:49:58 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> John >> Somewhere i remember reading that's its a bad idea to have the tranny in >> neutral and the prop spinning under sail. If my recollection serves me, it >> should be locked in reverse during sailing is that correct? >> >> Alon Egozi PE. >> Tel: (646) 456-1040 >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On *Mon, 3/29/10, John Jennings *wrote: >> >> >> From: John Jennings >> Subject: Re: Re: [IC27A] Re: Universal M 18 (but with photos)... >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 10:42 PM >> >> >> >> Mark >> >> My 5411 also does not run a lot of water through the exhaust. Your >> description of spurts is about right. I have been running it for seven >> years and consider it to be normal. Others who are not familiar with the >> 5411 always comment about this "abnormal" characteristic. >> >> I have a three bladed prop. Several years ago I was planning on going to >> a two bladed but the Admiral after hearing of the advantages and >> disadvantages "persuaded" me to keep the three bladed. I was interested in >> less drag (and more speed) and she was interested in power to get through >> rough conditions. To lessen the impact of the drag created by the three >> bladed prop while under sail the tranny is in neutral and the prop spins. >> This helps. >> >> Re speed. Before I had work done to the engine, I felt comfortable >> cruising at about 6 kt at about 3/4 - 7/8 throttle. Now I cruise at 5.5 >> kts. I do not have a tack so I do not know my RPMs. I never run at full >> throttle. >> >> I can appreciate your concern and checking occasionally on the engine. >> Several years ago while on a cruise the Admiral and I were leaving our >> overnight slip and I went below to check the engine and as I opened the door >> water was being sprayed on the port side.. Bottom line --- a blown >> "freeze" plug. On another occasion after packing what seemed like all of >> our worldly goods on the boat for a multiple day cruise, I checked the >> engine and was met with thick black diesel smoke. Bottom line -- a hole >> in the exhaust. I was upset with having to discontinue the cruise and >> having to get the exhaust repaired. The Admiral was upset because we had to >> unpack the boat!! Go figure. >> >> John J. >> >> >> >> >> >> On that note...... My 5411 runs nice and cool, but never seems to push >> very much water out the exhaust pipe. I know that it has to achieve >> operating temperature first, but even fully warmed up there is just an >> ocassional spurt. Seems rather loud also. There is no leak, as I am always >> on the lookout for fluids where they don't belong. And, as I said, seems to >> run cool. My engine instruments seem to work fine, but I still open that >> door from time-to-time to check for leaks, excessive heat, etc. >> >> Also, I'd be interested to know what your max speed is with the 5411 and >> 2-blade prop. Thanks. >> >> Mark A >> Mad Hatter >> #5306 >> Portland OR >> >> --- On *Mon, 3/29/10, John Jennings **wrote: >> * >> >> * >> From: John Jennings >> Subject: Re: [IC27A] Re: Universal M 18 (but with photos)... >> To: ic...@yahoogroups. com >> >> Date: Monday, March 29, 2010, 9:46 AM >> >> * >> * * >> *Rob* >> ** >> *I will try to answer your question. Sea (raw) water cooling (model >> 5411/15 ) means the engine's water pump pulls sea water in through the sea >> cock and circulates the water through the engine block and out the exhaust. >> The thermostat controls the amount of sea water that is pulled into the >> engine block thereby maintaining a constant engine temperature. A Model 18 >> is fresh water cooled, that is, the engine has a water jacket similar to an >> automobile engine and this water is the coolant for the engine . Sea water >> is is pulled through the sea cock and circulated through the water jacket to >> cool the fresh water. Again a thermostat is used to control engine >> temperature. The sea water is cycled out the exhaust. * >> ** >> *John J. >> >> Mar 29, 2010 12:16:41 PM, ic...@yahoogroups. com wrote: >> * >> >> * ** * >> * >> don, >> >> to potentially ask a dumb question; does a fresh water cooled engine still >> cycle water out of the exhaust post on the transom? i do have an m-18 and i >> believed it to be a raw water cooled beast. please clarify. thanks -rob >> >> --- In >> ic...@yahoogroups. com, Don Brooks >> > >> > >> > Robert, >> >  I am wondering if you are pulling my leg here, but I will try to give >> you an answer. >> > 1. You don't have a M-18. You have a Universal 5411.  The >> difference is the 5411 is 11hp and raw water cooled vs 14hp and fresh water >> cooled. I have a M-18 and have limited knowledge on your engine. >> > 2. The 5411 does not have a heat exchanger. Pictured is an exhaust >> elbow or mixing elbow. You change it when it needs changing. Usually >> when it starts leaking exhaust or water. I don't know if your engine has a >> zinc, maybe a 5411 owner can tell you. >> > 3. The transmission  is the red thing. Your coupler is very rusty, >> but I would not tackle it until you need to. Hose it down with WD40 >> occasionally. >> > 4. Exhaust pipe looks about normal. >> > 5. Elect harness. Yes. >> > 6. I don't know about the thermostat, different than on mine. >> >    The fuel filter bracket should not be loose. >> >    The "heating elements" are your fuel injectors and should not >> leak. Make sure the nut on the injector line is tight. >> > Don, #6293, Niceville, FL >> >  >> > >> > From: Robert Macura >> > Subject: [IC27A] Universal M 18 (but with photos)... >> > To: >> <http://us.mc574.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=IC27A%40yahoogroups.com>ic...@yahoogroups. >> com >> >> > Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 1:52 PM >> > >> > >> > >> >  >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Dear All, >> > >> > I would like to ask you for few tips regarding maintaining of my new-old >> Universal M 18. >> > I apologize the list is so long, but it just attests how ignorant I am >> in the topic. >> > >> > >> > 1. Universal M18 with fresh water cooling only introduces itself to >> the eminent members of the C27 List. >> > >> > >> <http://us.mc574.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=IC27A%40yahoogroups.com> >> http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/9tR_ hu9Gk0Cw4DdcsrDr6Q? authkey= >> Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> >> > >> > >> > 2. Heat exchanger >> > >> > Here is my setup for the heat exchanger. I understand that I am supposed >> to change this pipe every 5 years? Where i could get it and can I upgrade? >> That is it seems that there is a version with a cooler. Just to be sure >> There are no zincks in this version of the engine? Also this pipe is >> fastened to the rusted metal bar via very "temporary" way. Should I change >> it to more solid fastener? >> > How tight it should be fasten (no movement allowed at all when engine is >> running?) >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/AtoAzes5- FDXOWHwvRKLYQ? >> authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > >> > >> > 3. Transmission >> > >> > Is this normal that this part is so rusty or should I worry? If worry, >> what should I do? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ joAuSNcbUgrWITEKNdk aFA? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/D_ jTa6YkU749q28aMIBp6 >> g?authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ GimkpA8rn80fyb4E9Yf N7Q? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > 4. Water exhaust pipe hangs like this, is this the way it supposed to >> be? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/h7pyDNq8zT rtco_ >> UTS3L0Q?authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > >> > 5. Electrical Harness and cables kind of hang lose like this , is this >> acceptable? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/mry_ 2viDEhkPKYG7dBablw? >> authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/0MUAUDNSt_ zDuCOe_ >> PRSjg?authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > >> > 6. Thermostat; >> > >> > My thermostat gauge was not working so I change the thermostat. BUT, >> one side of the new thermostat was marked "to the radiator" >> > Since I don't have a radiator, which way it should face? Towards the >> engine or exhaust? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ tdsKXbomdxUWBWChNyj zEQ? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > Here is the view of the old and new thermostat side by side >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/UQ_ oTrkpwjjSN9G_ >> iPNHKg?authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > I got two gaskets with a thermostat. I used the bigger one, but have no >> clue where I am supposed to put the smaller (white paper) one? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/wtEb- nUGnk4gfMExL4YnNA? >> authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > Photo just of new thermostat in place just before attaching the other >> part of housing. >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/Zz9gfiYa_ IKZnvOiqEl7vg? >> authkey= Gv1sRgCJulyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat= directlink >> > >> > Inside of the pipe of the cooling system is very rusty. Is there any way >> to help "washout" the cooling system? >> > Like for example using white vinegar as opposed to Chesapeake Bay water >> and leaving it in the system overnight? >> > I cleaned the old thermostat in vinegar (Dont' ask I a am a Polak, we do >> such things) and tested it in boiling water. >> > It works just fine. >> > >> > >> > I am able to "hand wobble" my diesel filter setup (but NOT a filter) a >> bit (1/5 of an inch), does it matter? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/2XqJKmth0g EZWlAHyIN3- >> A?authkey=Gv1sRgCJu lyKqXu6K- 1AE&feat=directlink >> > >> > >> > >> > Heating elements are getting a bit wet ( but not really leaking) during >> engine operation, should I be worry? Anything here can be fasten harder? >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ 2cqRX2EXr4vAekiPRyZ Stg? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ jYssZfEMztDKsYnb4FT wDQ? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > >> > >> > Good news ! zee engine does work and I am ready to sail tomorrow. >> > >> > http://picasaweb. google.com/ lh/photo/ Y01ARrk39chhN8VTF23 bgg? >> authkey=Gv1sRgCJuly KqXu6K-1AE& feat=directlink >> > >> > Thank you very much for spending your time reading it, looking at my >> photos and helping me! >> > >> > Happy Sailing! >> > >> > Robert >> > >> >  >> > >> >> * >> >> ** >> >> ** >> >> >> >> > >
