>>>>You said it right there - "that DEGREE of roundness", but, admit it or not, Stormur has some degree of roundness in that picture, and in PACE which is absolutely amazing. It's a shame the thread got away from that and into EXTREME roundness.
Sure, Susan, from that picture, his back does appear nice and level - I know I mentioned it at least a couple of times, and I think Judy did too. >>> Not the roundness that you showed in those dressage pictures, but at least a "levelness" that a lot of horses don't even achieve in trot. I am looking at his topline. I agree, he is a lot "longer" in frame than the other photos, so mabye "round" isn't the proper term; but I see absolutely NO hollowness I guess this is the first time I've thought about trying to isolate a flat or level back from the "whole horse." Can we do that? I'm not so sure that's going to tell us what we need to know. I just reviewed my "Cure that Pace" CD that Lee put out before she died, and I was struck by a couple of things. One thing is was the list of criteria she described for a nicely moving horse...and one of those traits was "forwardness." I then went and reviewed the very first lesson of the first set of Jane Savoie tapes... and the subject is forwardness! Two very different trainers, but he same goal. And what is a symptom that the horse isn't yet "forward"...? His legs aren't coming up under him, or may even be trailing out behind. If a horse's legs are trailing way behind, he's a long way from being round...and he may in fact be hollow. The position of the horse's head and neck should be a symptom of the push from behind, the push towards "forwardness"...That should come AFTER the push though, not before....right? As for the flat back...how about this: take a look at the speed racker in picture "C" about halfway down this page. http://gaitedhorses.net/Articles/Pace/Pace.shtml (Ignore the rider's chair seat, since we are only talking about horses and their "frames" for the moment, not critiquing riders...) I can't OBVIOUSLY see that the horse's back is hollow - it even looks reasonably level to me. His back isn't obviously dropped, and I can't SEE any slack abdominals. But, is he round...? Not by a long shot! Look how long he's stretched out - that's anti-round! In fact, while that horse might be a hoot to ride, I don't want my horses going in that frame for very long at all. (And that's a rack, not a pace.) If the legs are that far behind them, they sure aren't giving his back much support - remember that table legs are most effective when somewhat evenly placed under the weight they are bearing. Karen Thomas, NC
