Arie Kusuma Atmaja wrote:
> Saya barusan udah baca tapi skrg lagi kurang mood kasih komentar, ada
> yang mau berbaik hati berkomentar duluan? BTW, ini bisa jadi posting
> senada sbg kelanjutan yang pernah steven post dulu ke id-perl:
>
> http://www.oreillynet.com/ruby/blog/2007/09/rubyforge_vs_cpan.html
>
> It’s often been said that Perl’s greatest strength is CPAN, Perl’s vast
> collection of free libraries contributed by developers from around the
> world. Recently I started to wonder about RubyForge and how RubyForge
> stacks up against CPAN in general.1
>
> First, length of service. CPAN has been around for 12 years (October
> 1995). RubyForge has been in existence for just over 4 years (July, 2003).
perbedaan usia. usia rubyforge 1/3 usia CPAN
> Second, the number of users. RubyForge boasts over 20,300 users. CPAN,
> on the other hand, has far less at just over 6,150 registered users.2
> Not every registered user is associated with a project, however. There
> are 3635 users are associated with a project on RubyForge, while on CPAN
> there are 3774 users associated with at least one library. Of the 3635
> users on RubyForge, 849 are associated with more than one project.3
ID | description | rubyforge | CPAN
--------------------------------------
1 | total user | 20_300 | 6_150 # perbandingannya 3.3 : 1
2 | user ter- | 3_635 | 3_774 # perbandingannya jadi 0.96 : 1
asosiasi dg
project
komentar sejenak:
$ ruby -e 'puts 20_300 / 3_635.0'
5.58459422283356
ck ck ck. kasarnya dari total semua yg didapat itu, diantara 6 rubyist ada 1 aja
yg terasosiasi dg project! ini belum dihitung dari *fraction* yang kemaren2x
pada
teriak minta bikin punya railsforge lah, padahal ngapain juga (tu yg mbikin
kurang
kerjaan), sama-sama ruby app gak usah dipisah2x. mending rubyforge nya yang
dioptimasi. kalo mentang2 rails dipisah, nanti lama-lama terpecah-belahlah kita,
aplikasi anu dipisah, aplikasi itu dipisah, yang lain dipisah. padahal
dulu-dulunya jaman raa lalu kompail sendiri berjaya orang-orang malah teriak
WHERE
IS CPAN IN RUBY????!!!! trus ada hal fulton yang malah skeptics sama ide
kebanyakan orang2 perl dulu itu, dia bilang kan tinggal compile sendiri gampang
selesai. tapi tetap aja dimintai biar ada CPAN RUBY. pas udah ada malah
dipecah2.
demi masa. sesungguhnya manusia berada dalam kerugian.
trus tapi di sumber referensi disebut, biasanya di 849 orang di rubyforge itu,
satu account bisa punya/terasosiasi dengan lebih dari 1 project! Haha! Keren!
memang kalo dilihat dari sisi itu sih keren. dari sisi lain lagi kalau kita
lihat
itu rubyforge mungkin bikin sistim moderasi utk project baru jadi pasti pada gak
mau repot lagi setting macam-macam, jadi satu user bahkan satu project isinya
dozen libraries kayak si ara t howard (bagusnya dia kalo gak salah svn dibuka
deh)
atau saya (unfortunately akses svn anonim ditutup :-P titik)
> Third, the number of libraries. CPAN boasts approximately 13,500
> separate libraries. RubyForge currently has approximately 5000 separate
> libraries, organized into about 4800 projects. That means, on average,
> most projects have one library, but some have multiple libraries per
> project.4 While RubyForge has far fewer libaries than CPAN, the ratio
> isn’t nearly as large as I would have thought.
>
> Quick aside. I didn’t do any real analysis against Python, but the home
> page for the Vaults of Parnassus shows 2025 libraries.
RubyForge CPAN
total projects 5_000 13_500
dasar edan CPAN! Monster!!! tapi liat itu rubyforge uda merangkak ke hampir
setengahnya Monster CPAN!
aduh perbandingan ke python libraries informasinya minim sekali :-( khusus untuk
ini saya gatal pingin liat juga selain ke python juga analisis perbandingan ke
libraries haskell, erlang, java, pear and/or phpclass, dst (batak? and
brainfuck?)
:-D
ok mungkin yang lebih penting lagi adalah dari sisi kualitas dipakai tidaknya
suatu rubygems atau project di rubyforge itu sendiri. penabuh genderang
ternyaring
untuk framework web aja contohnya kan tetap rails itu di dunia ruby, walau
padahal
ada juga yang lain-lain. trus lagi libraries bikin ryan davis, huwaaah ini dia
termasuk tokoh idola arie :"> asal jangan si p.j aja ya, itu tuh yg bikin
superiator (dulu dia pernah bikin potong kompas model ruby kayak python, haha
bagus-sih-bagus dia kreatif dan enjoy dan fun banget, trus kita jadi ada banyak
alternatif, TIMTOWTDI [cape deh eneg dengar istilah ini]. tapi jangan-jangan
nanti
ada yang komplain kayak dulu pernah tuh akses file system aja di ruby banyak
banget itu kenapa, dst, katanya keep it simple.. katanya don't reinvent the
wheel..)
> Fourth, library quality and usefulness (more subjective here). There’s a
> lot of overlap and, well, cruft on CPAN.5 There are over 300 Acme (joke)
> modules. There are multiple wrappers for the same underlying library,
> such as many of the “Tiny” and “Simple” modules. There are libraries
> that should have been bundled together but weren’t, such as the various
> Chemistry::PointGroup libs. There are also libraries that have similar
> or identical functionality to other libraries, such as many of the List
> and/or Array libraries.
>
> On top of that, a healthy chunk of the Perl libraries on CPAN are either
> unnecessary in Ruby or contain behavior that’s already baked into Ruby
> itself. Examples include a large collection of OO modules
> (Class::Accessors and the like), a large number of modules that create
> various IO, Number, File, Array, String and Hash classes, and related
> methods, that Ruby has builtin (Array, Array::List, File::chmod, and so
> on), over 200 “Tie” modules (Ruby doesn’t need ‘tie’), over 90 libraries
> for interacting with CPAN or the RT backend itself (I only know of one
> library for RubyForge), and equivalent libraries that are already part
> of Ruby’s standard library (e.g. libwww).
nahh ini dia dibahas soal kualitasnya dan tingkat bermanfaat bagi kebanyakan
kesejahteraan orang apa nggak.
si matz bener2x bikin ruby fun banget ya, jadi beliau tau/ngerti banget
pain/pedihnya programmer ingin ini ingin itu, dijadikan fitur builtin sama
beliau
di ruby. :-) dari sisi fancy dan keren, saya tetep, doyan demek-demek rubygems
nya
si ara :-D itu array aja bisa dimodif macam-macam, musti kuatin belajar
algoritma
sama felix dulu nih saya biar bisa pinter pahamin mainan si ara t howard sama
ryan
davis nih ah.
> Last, release frequency. Between August 14th and September 14th there
> were 1133 releases from 690 distinct libraries on CPAN 6. RubyForge, by
> contrast, had 612 releases in the same date range (although I wasn’t
> sure how many of them were from distinct libraries at the time of this
> writing). So, slightly less than half of CPAN at the moment.
14 Agustus - 14 September
--------------------------------------------------
CPAN 6 1133 rilis dari 690 lib berbeda
RubyForge 612 rilis dari tidak yakin lib berbeda
ini jadi mengingatkan saya akan jumlah banyaknya user di rubyforge!
unproductivity
kills ruby juga seperti unproductivity kills LISP? ini tadinya dari diskusi
internal saya dengan sejenis makhluk yang kurang setuju dg itu, lalu
membandingkan
dengan kekuatan *support* dari vendor besar-besar, seperti java yang *sangat*
disupport oleh industri seperti sun, trus oracle (saya di cmiiw kalau salah).
bahasa gampangnya lah itu orang mau ya mau aja ngerjakan proyek, artinya kalo
produktif ya produktif aja, tapi *mana projectnya* yang serius dong jangan yang
ngaco!
hm, ada benarnya juga. realitas elegan dan kecantikan sesuatu seringkali tidak
berjalan seiring dengan realita di dunia nyata dan di industri! dulu andry
pernah
bilang itu linux yang "kocar kacir" gitu bisa sukses. dulu ada ninja codename
kosong kosong dua (bukan wiro sableng juga bukan sinto gendeng, sori ini
orangnya
pernah protes ke saya soalnya disebut2x terus namanya dia eneg) bilang itu php
ya
bisa sukses akhirnya disebut2x enterprise dan bisa scale padahal sempat bilang
itu
tim php core dan desainer bahasa php cocoknya jadi programmer low level saja
daripada jadi software designer. pernah juga dia bilang, itu lisp adalah bahasa
yang diciptakan sebelum waktunya, sehingga makhluk-makhluk primitif di zaman tsb
susah menerima betapa bijaknya cara pandang elegan programmer yang bisa lisp.
sedangkan kalau fortran sih busuk!
=))
> What do all these numbers mean? Good question. I think, at the very
> least, it means that the Ruby community is doing very well in terms of
> library development and releases. I give Tom Copeland a huge amount of
> credit for that, in that I think the very act of creating RubyForge
> fostered an atmosphere of development (collaborative or otherwise) and
> inspired programmers new to Ruby to take the step of releasing their own
> software. I can’t prove it, of course. It’s just a gut feeling I have
> after watching the Ruby community grow for seven years.
>
> It also means that Perl is still going strong, cruft and all. You can’t
> really argue too much with their release rate, and some of it is really
> good stuff, too. I would say that CPAN still has the edge in database
> interfaces, Apache libraries and wrappers for 3rd party commercial
> libraries, among a few other things.[7]
ya betul. perl itu kuat! kuat sekali! :-D pernah ada ninja codename kosong
kosong
enam belas bilang ke saya : kalau saya bisa perl rie, lumayan juga buat jadi
pajangan kalo taroh di resume saya buat nakut-nakutin orang, neh serem neh orang
ini bisa perl!!! hati-hati kau! tau malu kau!
=))
> But, we’re catching up, and fast. :)
>
> See you next Wednesday.[8]
>
> 1 When I say “CPAN”, I’m generally referring to search.cpan.org plus RT.
> 2 I scraped the Authors pages to get the total. At the time of this
> writing it was 6152, although a handful of these appear to be generic
> logins.
> 3 CPAN isn’t a collaborative development environment, so there may be
> multiple users actively associated with a given library, but there’s no
> way to tell without manually digging through files.
> 4This number does not include a number of libraries listed on the RAA
> that are not on RubyForge. I’d make a very rough guess of about 200.
> Hard numbers welcome.
> 5 I should know. I own some of the cruft.
> 6 There were anywhere from 1 to 10 releases per library in that period.
> Some had multiple releases in the same day, a curious trend on CPAN.
> 7 Port a Perl module today! I should mention that I didn’t do any very
> long term trending, so I guess it’s possible that the releases per month
> have dropped, but I somehow doubt it. Feel free to prove me wrong (or
> right).
yeah! contek orang-orang perl! ambil yang baik dan bagus buang yang buruk! saya
pernah dinasihati itu perl-dbi dulu itu diimprove di zaman-zaman seperti masa
perjuangan ruby seperti sekarang lho rie...
# bahasa halus supaya pada ng-improve ruby-dbi, i know that,
# but... aaayo jangan ada alasan, smackdown diri sendiri nih! harakiri!
> 8 Many thanks go to Tom Copeland for providing me with the RubyForge
> statistics.
> @steve, 1 contoh, gw pas coba liat dan perhatikan di perl mau cari-cari
> fitur standar library semacam Ruby Unit Testing di Ruby ternyata
> gak/bukan bawaan dari standar perlnya ya, pas baca buku yang ditulis
> chromatic (buku perl testing) oo baru tau itu adanya di CPAN toh..
> padahal hari gini kata-kata macam "agile" benar-benar jadi buzzword buat
> orang-orang yang benar-benar melaksanakannya dan yang tau nyebut2x kata
> itu saja (kalo gw keknya paling masi level di nomer 2 barusan deh).
> tumben ini ya, biasanya kan orang ruby sering nyontek dapet ide dari
> orang perl :-D
--
Arie | http://www.linkedin.com/in/ariekeren
http://ariekusumaatmaja.wordpress.com | http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/id-ruby
Never say RTFM. Turn the trolls into committers (Audrey Tang, conisli-ofun.pdf)
ID-Ruby
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