On Fri, Apr 25, 2025, at 12:31, Dave Crocker wrote: > > Your approach requires changing the entire email infrastructure. When will > you achieve utility at scale? Not for a (very) long time as ARC and IPv6 > demonstrate.
Agree, which is why it's "our" approach, not "mine" or "Wei's" - and has been socialised among many of the high traffic sites of the email infrastructure, such that the benefits of becoming interoperable will be high because the alternative is to lose the ability to send to "must send to" sites. In the same way that supporting HTTPS became necessary to access web sites at some point due to pressure from major sites. > When will mine achieve utility? As soon as any sender and their receivers > implement it. When will they achieve it at scale? As soon as more pairs > implement it. Incrementally. > > Your approach entails quite a lot of mechanism. Mine is utterly trivial. > That is not a minor difference. > > Your turn. > Our approach solves the whole problem enough to be worth the effort. Yours brings some benefit, but the overall benefit is trivial because it doesn't close the forwarding hole and forwarding becomes even more of a poisoned chalice than it has already become (Wei showed evidence of this and a credible theory for why). This is my objection to your proposed approach. It's both trivial in its implementation, and trivial in its benefit. My original proposed charter text required some demonstration that large providers were willing to implement it. That got watered down during the horse trading that got us to a charter, but I would still ask if you have evidence that any sizeable fraction of the producers or consumers of email in the world are interested in your proposal. Google and Yahoo staff members are co-authors on our proposal, and between them have mailbox numbers in the billions. Size by itself isn't sufficient for a proposal to have value, but continued access to those mailboxes is a very strong carrot for people to make the effort to implement a new specification. Bron. Bron Gondwana, CEO, Fastmail Pty Ltd [email protected]
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