On 24 Feb 2008 01:44:49 -0000, John Levine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The discarding of email is one of the key causes of some significant
>  > loss of trust in email as a reliable means of communication.
>
>  Since I invented the term "discardable" perhaps I should explain why I
>  mean discardable when I say discardable.
>
>  There is a common meme that discarding mail is always bad.  But
>  generating and delivering bogus mail is just as bad, because nobody
>  can find the real mail in a mountain of spam.  Every day I get
>  feedback loop "spam" reports for what is clearly real mail from a real
>  person sent to a real recipient.  But the recipient's eyes glazed over
>  at all the spam in the inbox, and they discard the real mail along
>  with the spam.  Keep that in mind.
>
>  I'm not sure how many people here other than Mike Hammer and me have
>  direct experience running a heavily phished domain, so here's a report
>  from the trenches.  I run abuse.net, a tiny little domain that manages
>  a reporting address database.  On a busy day there might be 100
>  outbound messages with abuse.net return addresses, but due to some
>  eastern European spammers with a strange sense of humor, every day I
>  get 400,000 bounces, out of office, and other blowback.  That's the
>  reality of a phish target -- the fake mail vastly exceeds the real
>  mail, by orders of magnitude.  I don't know the absolute numbers for
>  Paypal and the various banks, but I'm confident that they are in the
>  same situation at even larger scale, way more fake than real mail.
>
>  That's why when I say discardable, I really mean it.  When I upgrade
>  my MTA to sign all of abuse.net's mail, I will really want you to
>  throw away unsigned mail.  Not reject, not bounce, not send a DSN,
>  just THROW IT AWAY.  Even if you carefully do your filtering and
>  reject at SMTP time, enough of the MTAs that see your reject will turn
>  it into a bounce that I'll still be inundated with junk bounces for
>  mail I didn't send.  (Hmmn, large numbers of similar messages I didn't
>  ask for and don't want.  Don't we have a name for that?)

The alternatives aren't really any better, either. Bounce it. Bounce
it where? To the (99% chance of forged) return path?

>From what I am led to believe, the vast majority of DKIM evaluation is
taking place after receipt, meaning the opportunity to reject during
SMTP is not available.

Regards,
Al Iverson


-- 
Al Iverson on Spam and Deliverability, see http://www.spamresource.com
News, stats, info, and commentary on blacklists: http://www.dnsbl.com
My personal website: http://www.aliverson.com   --   Chicago, IL, USA
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