For me, the plan outlined below changes the cost of the travel from:
Long @ $2,000, Medium @ $1,200, and Short @ $400 = $3,600
to:
Short @ $400, Short @ $400, Medium @ $1,200 = $2,000
HOWEVER, if I lived in Asia, the plan proposed below changes my costs from
$3,600 to
Long @ $2,000, Long @ $2,000, Medium @ $1,200 = $5,200
So, instead of someone in the U.S. paying $3,600, or about 7.5% the per-capita
GDP, they can pay $2,000, or about 4% of per-capita GDP, for a reduction of
travel costs of about 45%. Along with that dramatic savings, there is a
corresponding shifting of the travel burden. Instead of someone in China
paying $3,600, or about 84% of the per-capita GDP, they can pay $5,200, or
about 122% of per-capita GDP, for an increase of almost 50%. Even better, that
individual most likely will have trouble getting a visa.
So, not only will we succeed in ensuring a drop-off in participation by
unsponsored individuals, this would be a wonderful plan to reduce participation
in the IETF by people outside of North America.
[Last I looked, reducing participation was NOT a goal of the IETF.]
On Oct 23, 2011, at 1:12 PM, Ping Pan wrote:
> In the past three IETF meetings, I have traveled to Beijing, Prague and
> Quebec City to meet most who live within a few hours (air, car, walking etc.)
> from me. The next two will be in Taipei (in Winter) and Paris (in Spring).
> This is more like a vacation package than a get-together for engineers to
> solve problems face-to-face.
>
> Several of us have chatted about this last week. How about this as a
> recommendation?
>
> We have two meetings in fixed locations each year: Minneapolis in winter, and
> Phoenix in summer. The other one can be somewhere in Europe or Asia.
>
> Both Minneapolis and Phoenix have huge conference facilities, are easy to go
> to, and can get cheap off-season discount. Most of all, it encourages the
> participants who want to do work going there.
>
> Make sense?
>
> Ping
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Eric Burger <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> It gets worse. To attend every IETF meeting costs about $10,000 per year.
> If we say one has to go to the face-to-face meetings, we limit the IETF to
> participants from corporations or entities that will sponsor the individual
> (pay to play?), IETF participants that have independent funds, or people that
> can generate significantly more than $10,000 per year from their IETF
> activities. $10,000 per year is not within a typical individual's budget.
> This is more especially so if the individual comes from a region of the world
> where the per-capita GDP is below $10,000 per year.
>
> Where does the $10,000 figure come from? It is based on the following
> assumptions:
> One trip is far, so $2,000 for airfare
> One trip is near, so $400 for airfare
> One trip is in between, so $1,200 for airfare
>
> Hotel: 6 nights (Sunday - Friday) at $200 average per night (including tax).
> I know, Taipei is much more than that and Vancouver, including tax, will be
> exactly that. However, the numbers are nice and round at $200. I often cannot
> afford to stay at the conference hotel; use your own numbers for your own
> circumstances.
>
> Meals & Misc Expenses: $50/day for 6 days
>
> So, the calculation is:
> 3x ($650 registration fee + $1,200 average airfare + $1,200 average hotel
> cost + $300 meals/other) = $10,050
>
>
> It is critically important to note the cost is dominated by travel and hotel.
> The only parameter in IETF's control is the registration fee. Even if ISOC,
> sponsors, or someone else endowed the IETF so we could drop the registration
> fee to zero, the annual cost for travel is over $8,000, which is still rather
> expensive.
>
> I do not believe we consciously want to prohibit individuals from
> participating in the IETF. I do not believe we consciously want to prohibit
> individuals from outside North America, Europe, and select (wealthy) Asian
> countries. However, this is one logical result of mandating people go to the
> face-to-face to get work done.
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2011, at 6:26 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 10/21/2011 7:58 PM, Melinda Shore wrote:
> >> It's increasingly the case that if you
> >> want to do work at the IETF, you need to go to meetings. I'd have
> >> considerable reservations about asking for the kind of money you're
> >> suggesting.
> >
> >
> > Melinda,
> >
> > I've changed the subject line because the point you raise is orthogonal to
> > the main thread, but since you raise it, it's worth exploring a bit (since
> > I happen to agree with your observation.)
> >
> > The dynamics that make this true seem to have to do with changes in our
> > community rather than in the nature of the technical work or the online
> > tools.
> >
> > So the question is how to move the center of gravity back to mailing lists?
> >
> > d/
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dave Crocker
> > Brandenburg InternetWorking
> > bbiw.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
>
>
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