Dear Debanghsu/all, In most arguments everyone has some points in their favor. So, when in an mailing list there is a clash of arguments and things descend into a level of a flamewar, the only way to stop these are by invoking the charter or rules that govern that organisation.
I have done the same here. FWIW, I had recieved far too many off-list calls and mails asking me "Exactly what the hell was going on in the list?" and "Why aren't you doing something abt it?". Saurav (our dear ol' "Samba-da" from COMPASS2003 days) expressed the summation of these calls in his email where he had stated that he felt as if he was being "spammed" by ILUG-Cal. It should be noted that PKS who was very much a vocal participant in these highly OT discussions immediately asked for ending these threads **on-list** favoring a off-list mode. He showed enough maturity and understanding as an user group old-timer to interprete the post as a "request" instead of abuse using filthy language or over-stepping of limits. Others like Soumyadip Modak, Sayamindu Dasgupta and Arijit Mazumdar all choose to exercise restraint and no one unsubscribed from the mailing list. And neither did you (Hizibiz/Debanghsu). All of your cared enough about the ILUG-Cal community and valued your participation/association with this organisation to close ranks during these times and allow the resumption of sanity on the list and in the LUG. The choice of joining and leaving the mailing list is a personal decision and Ashwin choose to exercise the latter option. Thats all there is to say about that. -ListAdmin. PS. FWIW, Atul Chitnis still continues to play an active and vocal role in the Bangalore LUG. This I know for a fact as he is an old friend of many years. -indra. Quoting hizibiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > its really bad to see such an end of a very well intended and timely > [OT] issue. Linux user groups has suffered from such setbacks and will > continue to do so till self restrain and estimation are practiced at > large. we have lost personalities like atul chitnis in the past and > loosing you Aswin, now. i would request you keep in the list, may be in > listening mode ! > regards > -hizibiz > > > > On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Ashwin Mansinghka wrote: > > > Hi Prem, > > > > I am replying to your specific request. > > > > >> Finally, Ashwin, I implore upon you to forgive and forget, and > > >> contribute to the LUG from the "inside" rather than the "outside". You > > >> sounded like the kid threating to take away his bat & ball if he was > > >> given a fast delivery! > > > > I unsubscribed the moment I saw the mail from LIST_ADMIN. > > > > I unsubscribed as per the established mailing practices and manners, in > > doing so I did respect the views of the LIST_ADMIN. Without challanging his > > > role of a moderator, admin, despot (benevolent or not) for the list. > > > > I for that matter, unsubscribed without even posting a reply to any thread > > > or even any protest, because there is no reason to protest. > > > > I never offered any threat (in the sense of taking the bat and ball away > > etc.) I just acted. > > > > I need not justify my actions beyond this. > > > > You have rightly said about BABUs and BABUDOM in this country, so what, if > > > "the list" happens to be a someones personal fiefdom for some time. Things > > > will change, I am sure of that. > > > > Any views which challange the authority (good / bad) are always considered > > > as rubbish (as clearly and rightly conveyed by Indra in his individual > > capacity). I am not surprised nor do I feel insulted (even if there was an > > > iota of intention to do so on part of Indra). I have chosen to refrain from > > > providing the rubbish to the collection of such esteemed individuals on the > > > list, by unsubscribing myself. > > > > I (maybe) belong to a very different school of ideology, i.e. I am a misfit > > > in the present set of subscribers to the list. So I have gladly choosen to > > > be away. > > > > Especially, after the mail from Indra (in his ADMIN and individual > > capacity), I think, I made the right decision. > > > > What do you say ? > > > > Thanks for writing. > > > > with Regards, > > ASHWIN > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Prem" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[email protected]>; "Ashwin Mansinghka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > "Ashwin Mansinghka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "peekay" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ayan Debnath" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 1:37 PM > > Subject: Re: [ilug-cal] [ADMIN-RIGHTS AND DISCUSSIONS] END OF THREAD > > > > > > > <REPLYING_AS_THE_LISTADMIN> > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Thank you for sharing your wonderful perceptions about mailing list > > > etiquette > > > and the norms that has governed ILUG lists across India since their > > > inception. > > > It rather obvious that you have access to privileged information about > > > these, > > > which has escaped me even though being an active member of the Indian > > > Linux > > > Users Community from early 1998 starting with as a member of Linux-India > > > > mailing > > > list. > > > > > > Although, Prem is quite right in stating that List **belongs** to the > > > ListAdmin. > > > The ListAdmin *is* the custodian and arbitrator in matters of all/any > > > dispute or > > > any point of contention. I did not become the listadmin LUG because I > > > started > > > it, I became so because people choose me for the task, which I have > > > carried out > > > over the last 7 years. > > > > > > FWIW, the listadmin **HAS** the unalienable, final right in saying what > is > > > right > > > and and what is not on a list. Just like the fact that Linus Torvalds has > > > > the > > > final right to say what goes into the Linux Kernel and what does not. > This > > > is > > > *not* a democracy, rather the role of a benevolent despot. > > > > > > Anyone who doesn't like that... well tough luck! Anyone feels the rules > > > > should > > > be different, go ahead and join a list which is kinder to your "views" > > > about > > > the > > > world after all it take all kinds to make up the world or setup you own > > > > list. > > > > > > As a listadmin I have little time or patience for presumptuous > > > personalities > > > suffering from persecution syndrome whosoever they may be, especially > ones > > > who > > > think they "know" and can pin-point my affiliations. > > > > > > hope that clears the confusion, > > > > > > -ListAdmin. > > > > > > </REPLYING_AS_THE_LISTADMIN> > > > > > > PS. As an individual member on the mailing list, I would probably say > > > "Good > > > riddance to bad rubbish!" and please excuse me if I heart doesn't exactly > > > > bleed. > > > There are far too many bleeding hearts in the world to make up for the > > > deficiencies of a single individual. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Prem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > >> Dear All, > > >> > > >> It is really sad, this turn of events. > > >> > > >> My dear cyber firends, whom I have never met, can we not just stop all > > >> this flamming and trolling? > > >> > > >> Internet is a great anonymizer, hence it is very tempting for the > > >> weak/cowardly to use the power of anonymity, and start such flames. > > >> Hence the term TROLL for such people. > > >> > > >> Let us please refrain from such uncouth mails/language. It is not > > >> necessary to use exalted salutations to show your respect for others. > > >> Just not calling names, offending, ego-bashing would be fine. No ego > > >> boosting is required on the list, we can find that a lot in India as > > >> it is in the real world, thank you. Just refrain from ego bashing. > > >> Since this LUG seems to me to be of only males, ego is THE watch word, > > >> I guess. > > >> > > >> Friends, fellow men, I implore upon you all, to remember, this is the > > >> country which teaches great patience and egolessness. Remember the > > >> saying "Idam na mama"! > > >> > > >> On another note, why dont we get have ladies on this list? The fact > > >> would automatically moderate the list I guess! > > >> > > >> Indra, though flamming did occur, it wasn't carried much ahead. You > > >> were justified in your role as a moderator (if a list-admin is the > > >> moderator too) to issue a warning. But not a threat, and on the list > > >> at that. Do you know how it sounded? Like the kid who says, you are > > >> playing in my courtyard, so you play by my rules! So, everybody should > > >> bowl only under the arm!!! > > >> > > >> Finally, Ashwin, I implore upon you to forgive and forget, and > > >> contribute to the LUG from the "inside" rather than the "outside". You > > >> sounded like the kid threating to take away his bat & ball if he was > > >> given a fast delivery! > > >> > > >> Comeon fellas, behave like grownups. > > >> > > >> And lets all eschew from such ego-based confrontations. It does no one > > >> good. We have seen it in our "babu"dom and hate it, why replicate it > > >> over here too? Where we are the trend setters and want it to be better > > >> than the real world? > > >> > > >> Just my "do kaurie". > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Prem > > >> > > >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:17:35 +0530, Ashwin Mansinghka > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > Dear All, > > >> > > > >> > I have unsubscribed myself from the list. > > >> > > > >> > I find it is too undemocratic. > > >> > > > >> > List ADMINS do not have the right to use such language anywhere, > > >> especially > > >> > where it is an open discussions. > > >> > > > >> > The mail was meant to offend and I rightly consider offended and so I > > > >> > am > > >> > off > > >> > the list, before some can further insult by threatening to delist > > >> without > > >> > naming the individuals or refering to their mails even. > > >> > > > >> > Delisting should never be offered as threat. It is the last resort > a > > >> > LIST-ADMIN should resort to. Definitely not as a threat to one and > > >> > all. > > >> > > > >> > I choose to remain unsubscribed till some sense prevails about what > is > > >> > linux > > >> > and what is not. I will observe the website to know what changes > have > > >> been > > >> > put in place to make this list a more free and acceptable place for > > > >> > one > > >> and > > >> > all, not just for a few students of the institute from where the > > >> LIST-ADMIN > > >> > also belongs. > > >> > > > >> > Anyway, I will try to reply to your mail, you can choose to post it > to > > >> the > > >> > list if you want. > > >> > > > >> > See my replies as below. > > >> > > > >> > with Regards, > > >> > ASHWIN > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> - Prem > > >> > > >> I spent a minute looking at my own code by accident. > > >> I was thinking "What the hell is this guy doing?" > > >> ---------------------------------------------------- > > >> Prem Kumar Aparanji > > >> M: 00919830631687 > > >> [Kolkata, WB, INDIA] > > >> > > >> http://prem.shaliniprem.com > > >> http://www.shaliniprem.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the body "unsubscribe ilug-cal" and an empty subject line. FAQ: http://www.ilug-cal.org/node.php?id=3
