On Monday, 22 Aug 2005 3:56 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Sandip this bitterness - which you see - is not being able to get an
> important issue across. Check out the number of typical male mails

As I said, I understand the reason behind the bitterness, but being bitter 
never helps in having a good discussion, and veers the conversation to a 
personal nature (take a look at some of the subsequent posts till now). That 
is all.

> >Like someone recently said - nobody tries to make the environment
> >women-unfriendly.
> But is there an attempt to consider that what exists might anyway be
> unfriendly.

Isnt this thread one?

> See I don;t want to pitch in - as part of the list I too am to blame for
> not have said / done anything and lain silent - complacent. Its some
> woman activists job. Sorry

The women dont have to be "activists". Any women can help us. The more, the 
better. What one woman takes as an offense might seem harmless to other. The 
more the women, the more clear the directions will be.

> The list does have some women and maybe some men who do find the
> language of the mail list insensitive as well. 

Please keep pointing out. I am sure the majority of the people here want more 
sections of the population to participate, and would do anything to see it 

> There is an audience that 
> reads the mails and the stuff is that not enough - does it have to only
> physical presence of a certain class of people around that dictates
> behaviour. If so then many of us are leading multiple lives and many in
> hiding. Shouldn't our lives be open - like open source - clean but buggy
> and transparent but powerful.


> >We need help on this from women like you.
> >Please help us "clean" out all our official announcements on Freedel, for
> >instance.
> Why is the onus on women to help "clean up" - if we understand the issue
> is it not up to us to make the effort.

Please read my complete mail. I said that we will keep a close check to see 
the obvious issues sorted out, but there might be other issues that we might 
have missed.

> Again why somebody with experience - why make someone else responsible
> for the clean up - is this clean up going to be restricted to the list -
> thats one way . But ... the sensitivity has to be across the board - if
> a man !!! is cleaned up because of rules in the ILUG thats one thing -
> that means he is free to be insensitive is other parts of his life.
> Ultimately it won't work.

Notice, that in all my mails I have tried to send across the message that our 
public messages should be suitable to not just women, but children and 
physically challenged too. This is not all common sense. It also requires 
people who are actually in these situations, who have seen the needs of these 
sections, and felt the pain of these sections of the society. 

Without actualy being or helping a physically challenged person, can you 
always think of all their needs while designing a software, for instance?

This is not an ideal world, and lets not keep hoping that it will be so today 
or tomorrow just by our thinking to be so. There is no loss of face in asking 
for help - many organizations do.

- Sandip

Sandip Bhattacharya  *    Puroga Technologies   *     [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Work: http://www.puroga.com  *   Home/Blog: http://www.sandipb.net/blog

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