On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:51:08 +0530, Shamail Tayyab
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Nov 14, 2007 2:23 PM, Manoj Srivastava
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It seems that i am not that skilled as much as you are, though i think
> i can answer all the queries, and still can prove my point! Let me go
> particular... Firstly, i was talking in general, what an average
> human being thinks...
Are you implying I am not average? A freak, perhaps? :-)
> With 3D desktop i meant compiz, beryl, fusion etc. (now please dont
> say, i should have said compiz fusion) in deb, one needs to edit
> xorg.conf to add glx in the module section... leave it let dexconf do
> it... all of us know you consider it normal... you consider, not a
> newbie. This is your personal opinion about gnome or kde, but it
> doesn't counts in user-friendliness - our actual point of discussion
I am a user too, you know. I find that Debian caters to my needs
-- which means allowing me to _not_ use GNOME or KDE, and to do so
easily.
I do not like choices being made for me, behind my back, and
information being hidden from me because people think I am too ignorant
to handle the details. Information needs to be free -- and
configuration easily changeable. I find Debian unparralled in that.
>> I do not understand what defaulting sound to software mixer means. I
>> made sure that my kernel had my sound driver compiled as a module,
>> and it all worked. Even the buttons on the outside of the laptop
>> work, and are supported by Xorg.
>>
> Have you experienced something like, changing of volume doesn't
> function?
Not in Debian.
> This happens because in many cases, hardware volume mixer doesn't
> work, the best solution is to keep aside the hardware, and control the
> volume using software mixer... ubuntu defaults to it.
Unless you mean a physical button or wheel to control volume,
_all_ volume control is in software, but I suspect that is not what you
mean. I have no idea what you do mean, though -- I've never
experienced whatever you are facing.
I use gamix or the gkrellm volume control or my speakers volume
control to adjust the volume.
> Means in every case, either your card is being rendered properly or
> not, volume control will work for sure. Try Intel 915 on debian and
> change PCM level... you'll realize. Manually, for this one has to
> write a plugin like this...
> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/How_to_use_softvol_to_control_the_master_volume
Ah. The article was illuminating, you are talking about either
a defective sound card (can't control volume) or an inadequate driver.
See, I would hate for people to take my choices away. A good
sound card, with a fully functional driver, can do a better job than
just throttling the sound you send to the card in the first place, by
attenuating the volume in software.
Debian gives me a choice -- which is all that I want. The
defaults are easy enough to change (and I tend to research my machines
before I buy them, so I guess I never face this particular issue).
>> Well, the novice user would, if they had read the instructions. I am
>> not sure I have much sympathy for people who can't read the
>> installation instructions.
>>
>> Secondly, I have no idea why X is so much better than the curses
>> based install; I prefer the curses, personally, since it is
>> faster. And I was able to install a fully encrypted partition, with
>> LVM on top, entirely from the install.
>>
> Again you are giving your personal opinion, "I have no idea...". Why
> do you think others have to do anything with your idea?? Do you think
> they don't have brains to form their opinion about curses and X?
You too are giving a personal opinion when you say distro_foo is
more user friendly than distro_bar. Indeed, this is all opinions.
>>
>> And, despite it all being encrypted -- it suspends to ram, and
>> suspends to disk, all by itself.
>>
>> Try doing a fully encrypted (all but boot -- and yes, the swap is
>> encrypted, and still resume works) in either Fedora or Ubuntu. User
>> friendly, my foot.
>>
> Had you used a bit better way of talking on a such a big mailing list,
> where you are representing yourselves among more than 6000 people,
> i'ld have been much interested in answering this as well. Really,
> this was not expected... from a person like you. I've seen your
> profile. So my dear friend... keep your calm. This is not a battle
> field.
This is not really a very big mailing list. And I think you
should try to address the user friendliness issue that is being brought
up -- but I understand if you do not have an answer.
>> This happens not to be the case. D-I creates an sources.list.
>>
> Please tell me what D-I is? In my case, i've got an empty file after
> install.
Debian Installer. Could you provide some details? If you did
get an empty file, I would like to see under what circumstances the bug
is triggered.
>> Thankfully, Debian allows me _not_ to log into either GNOME or
>> KDE. And configuring themes is an easy, one time thing; giving me the
>> choices I want is far more user friendly than going for eye candy by
>> default. Are GNIOME themese so very hard to change? I was assured
>> that changing themes is easy -- in which case, what does it matter
>> what the initial theme is?
>>
> Yes, this matters... means debi is good that they provide no theme,
> and rest of 4786 distro developers are mad enough to waste their time
> and resources in creating a custom feel of their distro. Ridiculous!
Yes, I think so. For you user friendliness is a funky theme
with nekkid people staring up at you; for me it is being able to get a
fully encrypted laptop with LVM that can suspend to ram out of the
box.
>> What on earth are you talking about? Look at the end of the post, as
>> I demonstrate how loads of packages install bash_completions
>> automatically. Try "dlocate /etc/bash_completion"
>>
> I knew that! But you still have to do much to get bash auto complete
> things the way ubuntu does! try giving a command on ubuntu that
> exists but the package is not installed... u'll realize
Why would you want completion for a command that exists but the
underlying executable (that lives in the package which is not
installed) does not?
I do not think I understand this.
> Do! I am talking about the very same, and for your sake of
> information, this mail is being typed on Debian itself in iceweasel
> web browser.
Composing email in iceweasel? My sympathies lie with you.
> Again, may be this comes to surprise to you, I am a user of window
> maker. I dont use KDE and GNOME, from the very beginning i am talking
> as from a newbie.
Why are newbies considered the only users worth supporting?
>> Frankly, I think this is just plain old FUD. I think that user
>> friendliness has also rests in the choices offered; and the ojly
>> users to be friendly to are not the novice ones.
>>
> It depends, no one can do anything if you consider it FUD. Giving an
> example, tell me honestly, in your life time, how many computer or
> your friends/neighbours, you have seen buying a system and asking for
> a GNU/Linux system? Had you taken it as a public opinion, instead of
> cross commenting, then a bit of scope improvement may be seen!
Why would I care about what other people do? Why should I try to
impose my preferences on them? When I bought a car, I selected a
prius -- not a muscle car or a SUV or a truck as most of my
friends/neighbours do.
The issue is user friendliness, and I am a user. I use
computers every day. Seems like a distribution ought to try to be
friendly to me as well.
>>
> I am sorry for any sort of harsh language, if i had used... but i
> don't think this is the way to cross comment a post! This is mailing
> list, with users from across the globe... You are representing the
> iLugD, what impact does it carry (may be you are trying to show off
> your knowledge, well i am sorry for this, but it seems to be the
> truth)? Anyways...
When one makes a statement, one tries to offer supporting
evidence. If you think offering supporting evidence is showing off, all
I can say is that I am sorry for your experiences.
manoj
--
A woman should have compassion. Kirk, "Catspaw", stardate 3018.2
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/>
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
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