From: Bob Whiton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I think that Charles and Ken are both way off base.
Only because you completely misunderstood what I actually wrote.
Charles's contention that copying a DVD or CD or album to new media is illegal and/or immoral
I did not, at ANY POINT in my previous post, say anything even REMOTELY like this. My post, which has been requoted previously, made absolutely NO comment on the legality or morality of copying CDs and DVDs to new media for the purposes of backups. Indeed, I said QUOTE "there are several legitimate reasons to back up a CD or DVD ..."
What I *did* say was that you are NOT entitled to pick up or steal a free CD of your favourite album from the local CD store or using P2P software just because you own a vinyl copy at home. You can make your OWN copy of your vinyl album, of course, but having paid for a book/record/movie previously does NOT entitle you to free "upgrades" from the manufacturer when they move to a new medium. That's *all* I said on the subject, and I hope this clarifies that so you understand it.
I've been copying records onto tapes and CDs for my own use for years, and intend to continue with a clear conscience.
As well you should. Nobody said you shouldn't.
Although Charles may think that everyone bought CDs to replace their vinyl records,
It's not my opinion, it's a fact. If you prefer to make copies of your records rather than buy CDs, that's fine with me and the law to the best of my knowledge. However, most people who buy CDs to replace records do so primarily because either:
a. Their time is more valuable to them than the cost of the CD
b. The significantly higher quality of the sound and/or remastering of the album and/or additions made to it makes it a significantly more attractive value than the original record.
And of course us "old-timers" should remember that anyone born after 1980 is primarily buying CDs because it's the only medium they are aware of that music is sold in. The CD was introduced in 1983, and five years later it had already killed cassettes and LPs for the most part. Interestingly, DVDs are doing much the same thing to VHS right now, but it sure took DVD a lot longer to accomplish! And again, most people "upgrade" their VHS copies of beloved films to the DVD version because of the significant difference in visual/sound quality and additions over and above the original film.
Again, I didn't say this, I didn't condemn your practice in any way whatsoever, and to the best of my knowledge there's nothing illegal or immoral about it. I have converted several of my father's 1950s records to CD for him, so obviously I do NOT think it's illegal or immoral.most people I know just use something like CD SpinDoctor to make CDs from them (and then you can keep the vinyl for long-term archiving, since it'll outlast CDs).
All I said was that you're not entitled to a free or stolen upgraded copy of the album just because you "paid for it before," which Ken seemed to be saying was an entitlement. IOW, he seemed to be making the claim that if you've bought the VHS of a movie, you're entitled (as in "it's perfectly legal") to download a bootleg copy of the DVD (or copy a neighbor's DVD) since you've "paid for it already." This is just not so.
As I said in the previous post, you should re-buy things if you believe the "upgrade" of medium is worth it to you (better picture/sound, extras, expansion etc). If you don't think the upgrade is worth the money, simply don't buy it. There's no comment there on what you do with your "old" copy.
As far as Ken's claim that loaning of a CD is theft of intellectual property, I'd like to see some reference to an actual law or court decision, as I've never heard of such nonsense.
Agreed.
People have been loaning each other books ever since there have been books, and Ben Franklin promoted the practice as a social virtue. How is loaning a record/CD/DVD any different? I'm not talking about making copies to distribute, but just loaning an item.
I again refer Ken (and you) to the case law, which has traditionally supported your view. Copyright holders are not, by and large, worried about people "loaning" things out, because as a rule of thumb, the record/book/movie is not in use by the owner while it is being loaned. The advent of computer software and DVDs and digital copying technology, however, makes this a little more complicated -- you can loan your neighbour a copy of a book secure in the knowledge that you've done nothing wrong, but if you "loan" him your copy of MS Office, it's incredibly likely that an illegal act will take place. The courts and the law are *only just beginning* to address this "brave new world" of intellectual property and copyright, and there's a long way to go yet, along with many "what ifs" to answer in the meantime.
_Chas_
"If you could buy cool, Bill Gates would be The Fonz." -- seen on Slashdot
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