Bruce, you're missing the point. Attacks are rampant against all OSes. For example, Apache has had it's share of vulnerabilities in the past couple of years... which negate your zero virus and scripting problems statement. To deny that is to render yourself a 7-letter animal beginning with a capital O.
Your statement of >All inbound and outbound activity is logged. All >user-passwords are randomly generated, being 12 character passwords >comprised of Uppercase, lowercase, numeric and special characters. just shows ignorance of other OSes.... as if *nix was the only OS allowing strong password requirements and activity logging. Windows systems can be secured as well as *nix. While Windows 2000 was open by default, it could easily be secured by someone who knew what they were doing. Windows 2003 does a much better job of being secured out of the box, though, as with any systems, there's always a dependence on the person doing the job. The bottom line is the security of any OS is dependent on the engineer doing the work. If the person knows what they're doing, then the system can be hardened. Period. You essentially state that when you talk about advanced security planning, and proper directory and user security. That statement applies to any OS, application, etc. If you like, we can all go back to punch cards and dumb terminals to avoid the security issues networks and increased functionality bring. Alternately, we can address to actual details of securing a system while allowing functionality that makes businesses more efficient, and gives us all nearly instant access to information we only dreamed of a couple of decades ago. Otherwise, let's let this die... MS/.NET bashing, or any other platform/technology for that matter, with wandering logic serves no purpose. Darin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:38 AM Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Thank you for your very generalized statement, Darrell. If a unix machine is properly configured and hardened for security, ie: none of the new customer interfaces that have become so common with hosting providers, only SECURE FTP, and not allowing unsecured scripts and improper root access, then unix is indeed a VERY secure operating system. We run all of our credit card processing on unix machines and find them to be significantly faster, even with slower processors and less memory; have far fewer problems than MS based servers with ZERO virus activity; and ZERO scripting problems. All inbound and outbound activity is logged. All user-passwords are randomly generated, being 12 character passwords comprised of Uppercase, lowercase, numeric and special characters. Local access, both physical and login, to the unix machines is on a "need to have access basis only" - only 2 people have the ability to create new accounts and root level access. A little advance security planning; proper directory and user security; making certain that no unnecessary services are compiled and enabled; and the removal of all potential points of attack at the time of the kernel is compiled makes for a very secure computing environment. Bruce Barnes -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 10:11 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac >>I predict that within the next 3 years, .NET will become nothing more >>than a way for Microsoft to force equipment owners to purchase newer >>and faster servers, and allow newer and faster virus propagation >>throughout both public and private networks and cause more and bigger >>headaches for those of us who have to maintain networks, servers and >>workstations as we attempt to protect them from script-kiddies and >>organized criminals who are phishing for passwords, confidential data >>and new and more effective ways to steal money out of the pockets of >>end-users. Oh yeah I keep forgetting how c/c++ code running on Linux never gets exploited. Again as I think about it more the only OS that ever gets exploited is Windows. When one thinks its impossible you post again showing exactly how little you know about anything. Darrell -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert E. Spivack Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 19:51 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Bruce, Please stop trashing something that clearly you know nothing about. Maybe if you download the free version of Visual Studio Express and SQL Server Express and give it a real try, then you could comment about it. .NET is not a graphics design language or layout tool like FrontPage, Dreamweaver, et. al. .NET is not just a scripting language like PHP, Perl, or ASP. .NET is not just a programming language like C, C++, VisualBasic, Java. It is easier to say what it is not then to fully explain quickly what it really is. But here's a go: .NET is a new architecture, built from the ground up, to make programming faster, easier, and more reliable while also abstracting newly emerging "Web 2.0" concepts such as DHTML, SOAP/Web Services, Enterprise applications, and machine-to-machine communications/security. .NET borrows from many of the successes before it (programming languages, operating systems, security, data structures) and leverages advances in programming languages (Java), data structures (XML), machine-to-machine communications (SOAP/Web Services), and security ("partial-trust", Kerberos, and more.) .NET is based on a CLR (common language run-time) which allows multiple front-end languages (VB, C#, J#) to generate a single-format portable object code with full cross-language ability to call functions/modules written in any language from/to any language. .NET implements of managed code - which is protected run-time environment with garbage collection to improve the quality of code and limit the effects of bad coding (no more buffer overflows causing system-wide crashes). Conceptually, this is somewhat similar to the Java "sandbox" concept, but has a lot of differences. Unlike Java, which uses a virtual machine to emulate the pseudo code generated by the Java compiler, .NET uses a Just-in-time (JIT) compiler at run-time that converts CLR to native X86 machine code so the actual code runs with the same efficiency of regular compiled code rather than being interpreted/emulated. Java/J2EE versus .NET/VB/C# is a valid discussion (or "religious" argument). Arguing about anything else being compared to .NET is simply showing your ignorance in what .NET or Java programming environments are all about. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Barnes Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:52 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac While I am already dead-set against using NET for any applications, you are basically giving the short answer to why no one should use NET for coding. IE: NET is nothing more than "beefed up" Front Page, except that is places even more Microsoft specific garbage within the code and requires NET enabled servers to run on. Both FRONT PAGE and NET require specific extensions to be running on the server. Both FRONT PAGE and NET require MORE SERVER RESOURCES and MORE PROCESSING POWER to render the pages. Both FRONT PAGE and NET place inordinate lines of extra code, for all practical purposes, GARBAGE, into the code and; Everything done by both FRONT PAGE and NET can be done both easier, better, and more cross-browser compatible using currently available technology, coding software or by actual writing of code the old fashioned way - using a text editor. Thanks for the clarification! I'm prone to both old fashioned text editors and Dreamweaver, which has the capability to remove all Microsoft garbage from code using a very efficient clean up tool that's been built into the last several versions of the program. Bruce Barnes ChicagoNetTech Inc PS: I also refrain from using HTML in all e-mail messages. Plain text is far superior, carries far less likelihood of spreading a virus and doesn't get caught nearly as frequently by spam processors. ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Barker Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:50 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Caca. .Net has objects (like buttons, grids, listboxes, etc.) you drag to the "page" in the IDE, and they render code. No HTML must be crafted (if you follow the tutorials - AND - you don't particularly want portable nor efficient code). .Net builds all the code for you, and it's very MicrosoftCentric code. If you code your own HTML, then the rules are the same as any other environment, Cold Fusion, Front Page, Dreamweaver, whatever. It's the "party line" coding practices that build the junk web pages. Dan -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ted Daniels Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Hey Martin: I am a CF exponent as well, and use it heavily for targeted e-mail distribution using I-Mail. Apart from ASP.net taking 5 times as long to code any application compared with CF, there should be no difference in the end result. Therefore ,net in general is a big kludge designed to capture the VB users and must have some other inefficiencies carefully crafted into it that I am unware of, if it is causing other users problems. Ted Daniels BTW I guess CF may soon become part of Adobe if they buy Macromedia. Should make for an interesting addition in the area of document security. ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Schaible <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Darin Cox <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Hi, So far i know, creating or generating good html/css/dhtml is not a matter of the middleware (e.g. .net, php, coldfusion) you use. I'm more related to coldfusion, an therefore not eperienced with any members of programming languages of .net. This might by the reason, for my silly question ;-) So, what is the problem with .net relating to the client's html/css/dhtml part of an application? ============================================ Am Sonntag, 6. November 2005 um 16:03 schrieben Sie: > Yep. Grid layouts are still a problem though. Scrapping those and going with Flow/table layouts with limited divs has worked best for us. We usually do our mockups outside of .NET for initial layout testing, then bring them in and add the backend code. Darin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Darrell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED])> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Darin, I am sure you probably have already done this, but by adding the browsercaps extension in your web.config it goes along way to fixing a lot of the layout issues with Mozilla/Firefox/Netscape/etc. Darrell ------------------------------------------- invURIBL - Intelligent URI Filtering for Declude, mxGuard, and ORF. Stops SPAM by focusing on the spamvertised link. More effective than traditional RBL's. Download a copy today - http://www.invariantsystems.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Darin Cox <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Very true... .NET by default is _extremely_ IE-centric. In my mind .NET encourages poor layout techniques with the grid layout. If you've ever created a simple .NET web app without changing the layout, and then tried to view it in NS, FF, or Moz, you know what I mean. It works a bit better in Opera, but I won't go into Opera's rendering problems... So, best bet is to scrap what .NET tries to lead you to, and use what you already know works for web layout. Darin. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bud Durland <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] IMail 2006 WebMail w/o Mac Do I understand correctly that IMail's WebMail now run on IIS, with .net roots? Most likely, therein lies the cause of cross platform woes. -- ---------------------------------------------------------- I'm in my own little world. But that's OK, because they all know me here. ============================================ -- Mit freundlichen Grüssen -------------------------------------------- Merlin Consulting Martin Schaible Bahnhofstrasse 27 CH-8702 Zollikon Phone: +41 44 391 30 00 Fax: +41 44 391 32 49 Mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.merlinconsulting.ch Support: http://support.merlinconsulting.ch GPS: N47 20.235 E8 34.226 -------------------------------------------- News - Neue Produkte: .:. NOD32 Antivirus System .:. BlueDragon .:. Kiwi Syslog Monitor .:. Paessler GmbH .:. Sawmill Loganalyzer .:. 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