Thank you Sir, hope to find other *Cucurbita* someday, specially the big one in the fields.
Regards, surajit On Sat, Dec 21, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks a lot Surajit ji for detailed uploads. > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:23 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Sir, >> >> Only one plant is still alive and these fruits are growing on this very >> plant. I checked 10 fruits today and only two of those fruits have >> foliaceous sepals. It is interesting to note that foliaceous sepals when >> present in a particular fruit are not identical to each other. This upload >> is meant only for update/record. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Regards, >> >> surajit >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:09 AM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Sir, >>> >>> Photographs of partly mature fruits and seeds, recorded on 29/11/13. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:20 PM, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Sir, >>>> >>>> This plant is known as BIBI KUMRA locallly. I forgot to mention that we >>>> also eat its flower (male) fried with gram-flour. >>>> After much thought I think it is *C. moschata* Duchesne as you have >>>> already identified in your book or in eFI. >>>> >>>> Spathulate sepals (however variable it may be), pentagonal peduncle >>>> with broad/expanded attachment should precede any other discrepancies in >>>> leaf or hair characteristics. >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for this very educative discussion. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> We also used to cultivate the vine in Kashmir. I don't remember the >>>>> fruit, but flowers were large and yellow, C. pepo or C. moschata. Our >>>>> mother used to cook flowers buds and young shoots as karhi (using curd but >>>>> withour gram flour) it used to be very tasty. She would make halwa for us >>>>> from fruits, but at that age (8-10 years), pepo or moschata had no meaning >>>>> for us. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:45 PM, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sir, >>>>>> >>>>>> The more i read the more it gets complicated to conclude. I surely >>>>>> would follow the plants in my home. We eat its leaf as SHAG/SHAK >>>>>> (significantly rough & bland tasted compared to Indian spinach) and the >>>>>> fruits as vegetable. We do not prepare any pumpkin-HALWA and the same can >>>>>> be said about my friends/neighbour. >>>>>> >>>>>> Meanwhile, it has grooved/sulcate peduncle of *pepo* (Hooker & >>>>>> Haines), prickly (*pepo*, Hooker), but, 1) leaves are not deeply >>>>>> five-lobed (Prain) 2) problem of sepal, 3) doubt over if petiole can be >>>>>> called pungent (*pepo*, Prain). >>>>>> >>>>>> Herbarium in the net is not helpul - >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://linnean-online.org/view/collection/linnean=5Fherbarium/Cucurbita.html >>>>>> 2. >>>>>> http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=428 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> surajit >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Please follow them till maturity to resolve. Here in Delhi there are >>>>>>> two types of fruits sold in the market. Those looking similar to yours >>>>>>> sold >>>>>>> as petha (most commonly) or kadu or safed kadu (some as Sita phal) and >>>>>>> cooked as vegetable. These are globose, dark green with white lines or >>>>>>> patches, almost flat or depressed top. The second is sold almost yellow >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> colour (second photograph in my book), elongated, almost oblong and up >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> 80 cm long, mostly sold as Sita phal, cooked as vegetable but more >>>>>>> commonly >>>>>>> as sweet halwa. Inititially I had thought them to be two different >>>>>>> species, >>>>>>> former as C. pepo and latter as C. moschata, but latter changed my mind >>>>>>> after seeing wide range of fruits in the market and images of ayote >>>>>>> squash >>>>>>> on the net and its description in Vegetable crops by Balakrishnan. >>>>>>> As I wrote earlier may be you will be able to give me a clear >>>>>>> picture after studying your vines in detail and following up fruits till >>>>>>> maturity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:14 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are three vines growing in our home. From ground they climb >>>>>>>> to the roof of our store room as can be seen in the newly attached >>>>>>>> first >>>>>>>> pic. There. on the roof, they remain prostrate. They are intertwined so >>>>>>>> closely, firmly gripping each other with their tendrils, it is hard to >>>>>>>> separate them and follow individually. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yet, i rechecked thoroughly this afternoon. All bearing - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - same leaves, no white patch on any, petiole prickly >>>>>>>> - mature stem of all very prickly >>>>>>>> - leaf upper surface very scabrous, lower surface hairy, but >>>>>>>> not scabrous >>>>>>>> - two plants bear fruit; fruits are same, peduncle grooved, >>>>>>>> somewhat woody (not sure, maybe corky instead) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As for *sepals* it is the most confusing part. Of all the flowers >>>>>>>> i have examined only 3 or 4 have somewhat foliaceous sepals at the tip. >>>>>>>> But, this foliaceous part is variable (pic xx399 in this latest >>>>>>>> record), >>>>>>>> one having distinct while another is narrow wing like along the linear >>>>>>>> sepal. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Surely *the fruits can be said xerox copies of your photograph in >>>>>>>> page 53 of your book. Also the leaves in page 51.* >>>>>>>> *Also, it can be said that my plant(s), except for sepal confusion, >>>>>>>> is a copy of the illustration in FoC >>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=119692&flora_id=2>.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the other hand all the three plants certainly oppose the record >>>>>>>> of *C. moschata* by Dr. Haines, "The species is easily recognised >>>>>>>> by its general softness,.." >>>>>>>> But, then i might be very wrong, perhaps *C. pepo* is much more >>>>>>>> harsh-rigid-prickly than i am thinking of. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Surajit ji >>>>>>>>> If this particular plant is at a place where you can follow it up, >>>>>>>>> you may be able to solve the mystery. Your photograph 312 does not >>>>>>>>> show any >>>>>>>>> foliaceous calyx lobes, but 336 shows clearly foliaceous. Are they >>>>>>>>> are from >>>>>>>>> the same vine?, if not keep track of them. Your image 323 shows the >>>>>>>>> swollen >>>>>>>>> tip of peduncle slightly separated from fruit base as also shown on >>>>>>>>> page 53 >>>>>>>>> of my book. This is one aspect you can perhaps sort out before next >>>>>>>>> printing of my book. I have depicted both types of fruits in my book. >>>>>>>>> Two >>>>>>>>> things that kept me away from Cucucurbita pepo are first leaves not >>>>>>>>> lobed >>>>>>>>> (All plants of C. pepo I have seen in California including Zucchini >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> is now grown in India have deeply lobed leaves). Besides Book >>>>>>>>> Vegetable >>>>>>>>> Crops by Balakrishnan mentions only chapan kadu as member of C. pepo >>>>>>>>> cultivated in India. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Perhaps you have a very challenging assignment. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:56 AM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Good morning Sir >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Attaching photographs male & female flower, fruit, leaves, >>>>>>>>>> sepals, petiole, peduncle/pedicel. Leaf stalk is prickly, petiole >>>>>>>>>> sometimes >>>>>>>>>> longer than lamina. Petiole odorous but not intense. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am attaching records from Dr. Prain, Dr. Haines, FBI & FI. It >>>>>>>>>>> is interesting to not that while Dr. Haines thinks *C. melopepo* L. >>>>>>>>>>> is synonymous with *C. pepo* DC, Dr, Prain & Dr. Hooker think >>>>>>>>>>> otherwise. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The leaves (not photographed yet) of this plant are harsh, and >>>>>>>>>>> the entire plant is somewhat prickly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *C. pepo* DC >>>>>>>>>>> *C. pepo* Willd. iv. 609 *C. moshcata* Duchesne >>>>>>>>>>> *C. melopepo.* Willd. iv. 610. *C. maxima* Duchesne Prain >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> rigid, pungent hairs on the beneath of petiole; leaves deeply >>>>>>>>>>> five lobed; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes narrow subulate leaf stalk hairy all over, but not >>>>>>>>>>> pungent or rigid hair; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes broad spathulate, leafy >>>>>>>>>>> leaf stalk hairy all over, but not pungent or rigid hair; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes narrow-subulate Haines leaves harsh, rigid, acute >>>>>>>>>>> lobed; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peduncles sulcate; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> corolla narrowed at base, with erect lobes leaves soft, >>>>>>>>>>> indumentum fine & soft; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peduncle pentagonal, >>>>>>>>>>> expanded below the fruit; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> sepals often foliaceous leaves harsh, rigid, rounded lobed; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peduncle not sulcate; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> corolla lobes curved outwards FBI prickly rigid hair on the >>>>>>>>>>> beneath of the petiole; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peduncle woody, strongly grooved; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hairs of the petiole not pungent; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---------------- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> calyx segments spathulate or foliaceous hairs of the petiole >>>>>>>>>>> not pungent; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> peduncle stout corky, striated, not grooved; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> calyx segments lanceolate-linear FI fruit sub-cylindric, both >>>>>>>>>>> ends obtuse, suface very even fruit roundish, smooth, torulose >>>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It is very confusing. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Surajit ji >>>>>>>>>>>> This fruit had confused me a lot, initially I had also thought >>>>>>>>>>>> it to be C. pepo, but after I saw some older fruits, I noticed >>>>>>>>>>>> features of >>>>>>>>>>>> C. moschata. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:33 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This one is growing on the roof of our storeroom. It seems to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be the *Cucurbita pepo >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/mQuQIkIuzns>*, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but is it *C. pepo* L.? >>>>>>>>>>>>> Both in "Bengal Plants" and in Flora of British India it had >>>>>>>>>>>>> been cited as *C. pepo* DC. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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