I think we have to finally go by the Expert advise at *Victoria cruziana* and *V. amazonica* <http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria/dna_study/page1.html>, where the colour of the leaf is of least importance for identification purpose. The characteristics of the buds is the most easily recognizable.
On 8 October 2014 23:52, surajit koley <[email protected]> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: surajit koley <[email protected]> > Date: Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:48 PM > Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:182688] Interesting plants of AJCB Indian > Botanic Garden: AMAZON LILY (Victoria amazonica), Shibpur, Howrah: SCFEB23 > To: ganesh kumar <[email protected]> > > > Thank you very much Sir for this interesting discussion. I didn't know > there are several cultivars and hybrids of this amazing lily. > > Regards > > > On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:32 PM, ganesh kumar <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Sir, >> >> The picture shows one of the true wild type Victoria amazonica. The main >> character which distinguish V.a and V.c is, i feel ,the leaf colour. True >> V.amazonica is not at all clear bright green. The young emerging leaves are >> deep copper brown to red colour and the mature leaves also not at all fully >> green. More brown to red towards the rim and pale green in the middle. But >> in all other species n hybrids young emerging leaves and mature leaves are >> shiny green. And of course it is less attractive than its hybrids and other >> species. Thats why we get to see only hybrids in Botanical Gardens. >> >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:10 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thank you very much for this interesting discussion. This is not *V. >>> cruziana >>> *A.D.Orb. as buds are prickly all over >>> <http://www.kew.org/science-conservation/plants-fungi/victoria-cruziana-santa-cruz-waterlily> >>> (please see the attached pic). Moreover, buds are squat >>> <http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria/victoria_identification_amazonica.html>, >>> a feature of *V. amazonica* (Poepp.) J. C. Sowerby. I think leaf >>> colour, and also colour of sepals do satisfy *V.a.* But, I am not sure >>> about the width of the rim >>> <http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria_images/2002_amazonica/ama_7-31.html> >>> of these leaves. I don't have stats. One doc says rim is 2 to 4 inches >>> <http://www.botanicus.org/page/1571757>, another doc says 2 to 4 or 5 >>> <http://www.botanicus.org/page/1573193> inches. Of course those >>> measurement is for *V. regia* Lindl. >>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?41594> and >>> interestingly KEW takes the name as unresolved >>> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2451991>! It is also to >>> be noted buds of *V. *Longwood hybrid >>> <http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria/victoria_identification_lh.html> >>> are not squat and much less spiny. And there are other cultivars too >>> <http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria/victoria_identification.html>! >>> And famous it is !!! >>> >>> - http://www.virtualherbarium.org/gardenviews/victoriaamazonica.html >>> - http://www.mobot.org/mobot/hort/lily/victoria.html >>> - >>> >>> http://www.victoria-adventure.org/victoria/myths_and_misunderstandings.html >>> - http://www.hudsongardens.org/content/pdf/victorialilies.pdf >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 1:51 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Ganesh ji for the inputs. >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: ganesh kumar <[email protected]> >>>> Date: 8 October 2014 13:02 >>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:182688] Interesting plants of AJCB Indian >>>> Botanic Garden: AMAZON LILY (Victoria amazonica), Shibpur, Howrah: SCFEB23 >>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sir, >>>> Majority of the Botanical gardens in India and abroad are generally >>>> displaying V.cruziana and V.longwood hybrid.Including Kew , Howrah, >>>> JNTBGRI Trivandrum Botanical garden. Because it is more attractive >>>> than v.amazonica. True pictures of V.amazonica can be found in Fair >>>> child botanical garden. USA, web site. >>>> Recently Longwood hybrid and cruziana has been collected from Howrah >>>> to Lalbagh gardens Bangalore. But they are not succesful yet in >>>> establishing the plant. >>>> >>>> 90% of the pictures available in the internet are of V.cruziana or >>>> V.longwood hybrid as both these are more attractive and quite suits >>>> the western climate well. >>>> >>>> Thankyou n regards >>>> Ganesh >>>> >>>> On 10/8/14, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > Thanks, Ganesh ji. >>>> > Pl. also see other threads at efi page at Victoria amazonica >>>> > < >>>> https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/n/nymphaeaceae/victoria/victoria-amazonica >>>> > >>>> > to >>>> > be more clear. >>>> > One of the threads you can see from Botanical Garden, Kolkata by >>>> Surajit ji >>>> > is Shibpur Bot. : Victoria amazonica (Poepp.) J.C. Sowerby >>>> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/n-WD076MjBQ> >>>> > >>>> > On 8 October 2014 12:32, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> >> From: ganesh kumar <[email protected]> >>>> >> Date: 8 October 2014 12:21 >>>> >> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:182688] Interesting plants of AJCB Indian >>>> >> Botanic Garden: AMAZON LILY (Victoria amazonica), Shibpur, Howrah: >>>> >> SCFEB23 >>>> >> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Dear Sir, >>>> >> >>>> >> The entire bud (particularly the sepals) will be covered by thorns in >>>> >> V.amazonica. And the leaves are not at all bright green as in the >>>> >> picture. The immature leaves are having dark maroon coloration in >>>> >> V.amazonica. Cruziana having thorn less sepals on the bud, the >>>> >> intermediate cross longwood hybrid is more similar to cruziana. >>>> >> >>>> >> Majority of the photographs found on internet are of V.cruziana or >>>> >> V.longwood hybrid. True Victoria photographs are hard to find out. i >>>> >> will update with photographs , my only v.amazonica is just 4 months >>>> >> old. >>>> >> >>>> >> Thanks n regards >>>> >> Ganesh >>>> >> >>>> >> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 11:09 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > The plant shown in photographs are Victoria cruziana. and V. >>>> amazonica >>>> >> looks more or less like our Eurayle (makhana). The leaf rim wont >>>> exceed >>>> >> 3- >>>> >> 4 inches and the surface is maroon when young and maroon mixed green >>>> when >>>> >> matured. I am having one specimen on V. amazonica >>>> >> > Thanks and regards >>>> >> > Ganesh Ananthakrishnan >>>> >> > >>>> >> > efi page on Victoria amazonica >>>> >> > >>>> >> > I have gone through the differences at Victoria cruziana and V. >>>> >> amazonica, I feel it is V. amazonica only. This is very clear from >>>> the >>>> >> thorns on the buds. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> >> > From: Sukla Chanda <[email protected]> >>>> >> > Date: 28 February 2014 10:47 >>>> >> > Subject: [efloraofindia:182688] Interesting plants of AJCB Indian >>>> >> Botanic Garden: AMAZON LILY (Victoria amazonica), Shibpur, Howrah: >>>> >> SCFEB23 >>>> >> > To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Victoria amazonica (Poepp.) Sowerby >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Family-Nymphaeaceae >>>> >> > >>>> >> > The species has very large leaves, up to 3 m in diameter, that >>>> float on >>>> >> the water's surface on a submerged stalk, 7–8 m in length. The leaf >>>> is >>>> >> able >>>> >> to support quite a large weight due to the plant's structure. To >>>> counter >>>> >> the fragile nature of the leaf, the weight needs to be distributed >>>> across >>>> >> the surface through mechanical means, such as a sheet of plywood. >>>> This >>>> >> allows the leaf to support up to 70 pounds. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Thanks, >>>> >> > Sukla >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> > Sukla Chanda, PhD >>>> >> > Science & Education, >>>> >> > The Field Museum, Chicago IL. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > -- >>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> >> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send >>>> >> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >> > To post to this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]. >>>> >> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>> >> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > -- >>>> >> > With regards, >>>> >> > J.M.Garg >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> >> > The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand >>>> species >>>> >> > & >>>> >> eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged >>>> >> alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per >>>> >> Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> >> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest >>>> in >>>> >> the >>>> >> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> >> Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 10,000 >>>> >> species >>>> >> & 2,00,000 images). Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for >>>> >> efloraofindia. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>> Birds of >>>> >> India'. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> With regards, >>>> >> J.M.Garg >>>> >> >>>> >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, >>>> Plants >>>> >> etc. >>>> >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>> free as >>>> >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> >> >>>> >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, >>>> >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the >>>> >> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> >> Efloraofindia >>>> >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>> species >>>> >> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> >> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia >>>> >. >>>> >> >>>> >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>> of >>>> >> India'. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > With regards, >>>> > J.M.Garg >>>> > >>>> > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> > The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, >>>> Plants etc. >>>> > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>> free as >>>> > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> > >>>> > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, >>>> > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the >>>> > world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> > Efloraofindia >>>> > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>> species >>>> > database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> > Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia >>>> >. >>>> > >>>> > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> > India'. >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
