I fail to find any reason to rule out possibility of *C. caroliniana* Walter (*C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke).
Thank you Regards (simply) surajit koley ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! On 8 October 2015 at 11:13, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > Forwarding again for validation please. > > Some earlier relevant feedback: > > Isn't it *Commelina forsskalii *? > Regards, > Shobha > > Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know > how to identify a *Commelina*. The problem is BSI restricts the > distribution of *C. forsskalaei* Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. > Regards > surajit > > *Commelina* *diffusa* Burm.f. > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Ftpl%2Frecord%2Fkew-233842&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFisZoRRxh6GjYRG8fSkBzWQ20WJA>,- > from Santhan ji. > Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist > <http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483> > didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon > you have suggested. > There is very much confusion between *C. diffusa* Burm f. and *C. > caroliniana* Walter (in US). *C. caroliniana* is conspecific with *C. > hasskarlii* of India - > http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. > This species is *C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke. > Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal and > further opinion. > Thank you > Regards > surajit koley > This species is very close to *Commelina diffusa* Burm f. > I can rule out the possibility of *Comelina caroliniana* Walter (or *Commelina > hasskarli *C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons > 1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus > 2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe. > > Also, *Comelina caroliniana *Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the *correct > name* since the *name has priority* over *Commelina hasskarli *C.B.Clarke > (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the > abstract of the paper would have helped 😊 > > NB: There is one more species of *Commelina *in this post. > Image number P1160722 has *Commelina benghalensis* (right side) in > addition to the species in quiry. > -- > *Manudev K Madhavan* > > > Thanks to Manudev ji .... > BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ. > As per per the checklist above *C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in > this region* - > http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483 > <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fefloraindia.nic.in%2Fefloraindia%2FspeciesDesc_PCL.action%3Fspecies_id%3D2483&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErx3c_vKEiOHmHMMA8Hk6jJJ0QTg> > . > Even if we assume that the *BSI checklist is outdated*, and *C. diffusa* later > finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this > region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common > *Commelina* thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA > blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering > state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my > previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 > years ago) had been identified as *diffusa*! > > Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out *caroliniana* Walter) > - > > 1. no where it was/is mentioned that *caroliniana* cannot have an > upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme > *usually* vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The same > has been copied in FoNA > > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=107770#KEY-1-4>. > Against > this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 > flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also be > taken account in this regard. > 2. no where I could find mention of *spathe in caroliniana is > serrulate*! > 3. *spathe of caroliniana "*margins distinct,* usually cilliate,* apex > acuminate, *glabrous* or very sparsely pilose > <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000037> > ." > > If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of this > species being *hasskarlii* (*caroliniana*) *yet accepting the probability > of **diffusa* as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to see/read the *author's > view* in the paper I referred - *"... Although a detailed comparision > between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the variation exhibited by these > species in the United States will be the subject of another paper, > specimens of the two species can be separated by the following key :* > > - Spathes not all to slightly falcate;* upper cyme usually vestigial > (rarely.....)....* capsules....* .... C. caroliniana* > - Spathes usually distinctly falcate;* upper cyme in larger spathes > usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; *capsules.*.. C. > diffusa* > > Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at > different locations of several populations!!! > > (as for naming convention* I followed BSI checklist which doesn't mention > caroliniana*) > (*as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!*) > > Thank you > Regards > (simply) surajit koley > > Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of > same population. > Thank you > Regards > (simply) surajit koley > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: surajit koley <[email protected]> > Date: 29 September 2015 at 00:06 > Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the > bank of the pond > To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> > Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]>, manudev madhavan < > [email protected]> > > > Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of > same population. > > Thank you > Regards > (simply) surajit koley > ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! > > > On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:02 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks to Manudev ji and Garg Sir. >> BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ. >> As per per the checklist above *C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in >> this region* - >> http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483 >> . >> Even if we assume that the *BSI checklist is outdated*, and *C. diffusa* >> later >> finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this >> region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common >> *Commelina* thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA >> blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering >> state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my >> previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 >> years ago) had been identified as *diffusa*! >> >> Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out *caroliniana* Walter) >> - >> >> 1. no where it was/is mentioned that *caroliniana* cannot have an >> upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme >> *usually* vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The same >> has been copied in FoNA >> >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=107770#KEY-1-4>. >> Against >> this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 >> flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also >> be >> taken account in this regard. >> 2. no where I could find mention of *spathe in caroliniana is >> serrulate*! >> 3. *spathe of caroliniana "*margins distinct,* usually cilliate,* >> apex acuminate, *glabrous* or very sparsely pilose >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000037> >> ." >> >> If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of >> this species being *hasskarlii* (*caroliniana*) *yet accepting the >> probability of **diffusa* as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to >> see/read the *author's view* in the paper I referred - *"... Although a >> detailed comparision between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the >> variation exhibited by these species in the United States will be the >> subject of another paper, specimens of the two species can be separated by >> the following key :* >> >> - Spathes not all to slightly falcate;* upper cyme usually vestigial >> (rarely.....)....* capsules....* .... C. caroliniana* >> - Spathes usually distinctly falcate;* upper cyme in larger spathes >> usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; *capsules.*.. C. >> diffusa* >> >> Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at >> different locations of several populations!!! >> >> (as for naming convention* I followed BSI checklist which doesn't >> mention caroliniana*) >> (*as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!*) >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> (simply) surajit koley >> ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:56 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Manudev ji. >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: manudev madhavan >>> Date: 28 September 2015 at 16:48 >>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on >>> the bank of the pond >>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> This species is very close to *Commelina diffusa* Burm f. >>> I can rule out the possibility of *Comelina caroliniana* Walter (or >>> *Commelina >>> hasskarli *C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons >>> 1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus >>> 2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe. >>> >>> Also, *Comelina caroliniana *Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the *correct >>> name* since the *name has priority* over *Commelina hasskarli *C.B.Clarke >>> (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the >>> abstract of the paper would have helped 😊 >>> >>> NB: There is one more species of *Commelina *in this post. >>> Image number P1160722 has *Commelina benghalensis* (right side) in >>> addition to the species in quiry. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:20 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>> >>>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>> >>>> Isn't it *Commelina forsskalii *? >>>> Regards, >>>> Shobha >>>> >>>> Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know >>>> how to identify a *Commelina*. The problem is BSI restricts the >>>> distribution of *C. forsskalaei* Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> *Commelina* *diffusa* Burm.f. >>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Ftpl%2Frecord%2Fkew-233842&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFisZoRRxh6GjYRG8fSkBzWQ20WJA>,- >>>> from Santhan ji. >>>> Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist >>>> <http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483> >>>> didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon >>>> you have suggested. >>>> There is very much confusion between *C. diffusa* Burm f. and *C. >>>> caroliniana* Walter (in US). *C. caroliniana* is conspecific with *C. >>>> hasskarlii* of India - >>>> http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. >>>> This species is *C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke. >>>> Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal >>>> and further opinion. >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit koley >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: surajit koley <[email protected]> >>>> Date: 9 September 2015 at 00:04 >>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the >>>> bank of the pond >>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> These photographs were recorded on 02-Sept-2015 and today. This species >>>> is thriving on the bank of ponds, village drainage, even on sides of >>>> railway tracks, possibly in damp soil. >>>> >>>> Branching and rooting at nodes. >>>> >>>> Flowers are the size of *C. benghalensis* as can be seen in the last >>>> pic (flowers in right is *C. benghalensis*) where two species growing >>>> side by side. Leaves are upto 7.5 cm long and 2 cm wide. Only a very few >>>> leaves are narrower than this. This species doesn't flower much, only a >>>> very few shoots bear flower. >>>> >>>> Please help. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Manudev K Madhavan* >>> Assistant Professor, >>> Department of Botany, >>> St. Joseph's College >>> Medical College P.O. >>> Kozhikode- 673 008 >>> Mob: 9496470738 >>> http://manudevkmadhavan.wix.com/manudev >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>> world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or >>> Efloraofindia >>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>> >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >> >> > > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of > Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. 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