Few more days required to conclude its identity. For time being keep it in *Commlelina diffusa*.
On Sat, Oct 10, 2015 at 11:40 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > I fail to find any reason to rule out possibility of *C. caroliniana* Walter > (*C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke). > > Thank you > Regards > (simply) surajit koley > ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! > > > On 8 October 2015 at 11:13, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Forwarding again for validation please. >> >> Some earlier relevant feedback: >> >> Isn't it *Commelina forsskalii *? >> Regards, >> Shobha >> >> Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know >> how to identify a *Commelina*. The problem is BSI restricts the >> distribution of *C. forsskalaei* Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. >> Regards >> surajit >> >> *Commelina* *diffusa* Burm.f. >> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Ftpl%2Frecord%2Fkew-233842&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFisZoRRxh6GjYRG8fSkBzWQ20WJA>,- >> from Santhan ji. >> Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist >> <http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483> >> didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon >> you have suggested. >> There is very much confusion between *C. diffusa* Burm f. and *C. >> caroliniana* Walter (in US). *C. caroliniana* is conspecific with *C. >> hasskarlii* of India - >> http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. >> This species is *C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke. >> Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal >> and further opinion. >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit koley >> This species is very close to *Commelina diffusa* Burm f. >> I can rule out the possibility of *Comelina caroliniana* Walter (or >> *Commelina >> hasskarli *C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons >> 1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus >> 2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe. >> >> Also, *Comelina caroliniana *Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the *correct >> name* since the *name has priority* over *Commelina hasskarli *C.B.Clarke >> (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the >> abstract of the paper would have helped 😊 >> >> NB: There is one more species of *Commelina *in this post. >> Image number P1160722 has *Commelina benghalensis* (right side) in >> addition to the species in quiry. >> -- >> *Manudev K Madhavan* >> >> >> Thanks to Manudev ji .... >> BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ. >> As per per the checklist above *C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in >> this region* - >> http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483 >> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fefloraindia.nic.in%2Fefloraindia%2FspeciesDesc_PCL.action%3Fspecies_id%3D2483&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErx3c_vKEiOHmHMMA8Hk6jJJ0QTg> >> . >> Even if we assume that the *BSI checklist is outdated*, and *C. diffusa* >> later >> finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this >> region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common >> *Commelina* thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA >> blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering >> state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my >> previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 >> years ago) had been identified as *diffusa*! >> >> Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out *caroliniana* Walter) >> - >> >> 1. no where it was/is mentioned that *caroliniana* cannot have an >> upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme >> *usually* vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The same >> has been copied in FoNA >> >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=107770#KEY-1-4>. >> Against >> this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 >> flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also >> be >> taken account in this regard. >> 2. no where I could find mention of *spathe in caroliniana is >> serrulate*! >> 3. *spathe of caroliniana "*margins distinct,* usually cilliate,* >> apex acuminate, *glabrous* or very sparsely pilose >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000037> >> ." >> >> If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of >> this species being *hasskarlii* (*caroliniana*) *yet accepting the >> probability of **diffusa* as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to >> see/read the *author's view* in the paper I referred - *"... Although a >> detailed comparision between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the >> variation exhibited by these species in the United States will be the >> subject of another paper, specimens of the two species can be separated by >> the following key :* >> >> - Spathes not all to slightly falcate;* upper cyme usually vestigial >> (rarely.....)....* capsules....* .... C. caroliniana* >> - Spathes usually distinctly falcate;* upper cyme in larger spathes >> usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; *capsules.*.. C. >> diffusa* >> >> Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at >> different locations of several populations!!! >> >> (as for naming convention* I followed BSI checklist which doesn't >> mention caroliniana*) >> (*as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!*) >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> (simply) surajit koley >> >> Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of >> same population. >> Thank you >> Regards >> (simply) surajit koley >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: surajit koley <[email protected]> >> Date: 29 September 2015 at 00:06 >> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on >> the bank of the pond >> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]>, manudev madhavan < >> [email protected]> >> >> >> Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of >> same population. >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> (simply) surajit koley >> ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! >> >> >> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 11:02 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks to Manudev ji and Garg Sir. >>> BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ. >>> As per per the checklist above *C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in >>> this region* - >>> http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483 >>> . >>> Even if we assume that the *BSI checklist is outdated*, and *C. diffusa* >>> later >>> finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this >>> region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common >>> *Commelina* thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA >>> blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering >>> state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my >>> previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 >>> years ago) had been identified as *diffusa*! >>> >>> Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out *caroliniana* Walter) >>> - >>> >>> 1. no where it was/is mentioned that *caroliniana* cannot have an >>> upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme >>> *usually* vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The >>> same has been copied in FoNA >>> >>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=107770#KEY-1-4>. >>> Against >>> this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 >>> flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also >>> be >>> taken account in this regard. >>> 2. no where I could find mention of *spathe in caroliniana is >>> serrulate*! >>> 3. *spathe of caroliniana "*margins distinct,* usually cilliate,* >>> apex acuminate, *glabrous* or very sparsely pilose >>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=222000037> >>> ." >>> >>> If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of >>> this species being *hasskarlii* (*caroliniana*) *yet accepting the >>> probability of **diffusa* as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to >>> see/read the *author's view* in the paper I referred - *"... Although a >>> detailed comparision between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the >>> variation exhibited by these species in the United States will be the >>> subject of another paper, specimens of the two species can be separated by >>> the following key :* >>> >>> - Spathes not all to slightly falcate;* upper cyme usually vestigial >>> (rarely.....)....* capsules....* .... C. caroliniana* >>> - Spathes usually distinctly falcate;* upper cyme in larger spathes >>> usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; *capsules.*.. C. >>> diffusa* >>> >>> Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at >>> different locations of several populations!!! >>> >>> (as for naming convention* I followed BSI checklist which doesn't >>> mention caroliniana*) >>> (*as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!*) >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> (simply) surajit koley >>> ! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" ! >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:56 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks, Manudev ji. >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: manudev madhavan >>>> Date: 28 September 2015 at 16:48 >>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on >>>> the bank of the pond >>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> This species is very close to *Commelina diffusa* Burm f. >>>> I can rule out the possibility of *Comelina caroliniana* Walter (or >>>> *Commelina >>>> hasskarli *C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons >>>> 1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus >>>> 2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe. >>>> >>>> Also, *Comelina caroliniana *Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the *correct >>>> name* since the *name has priority* over *Commelina hasskarli *C.B.Clarke >>>> (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the >>>> abstract of the paper would have helped 😊 >>>> >>>> NB: There is one more species of *Commelina *in this post. >>>> Image number P1160722 has *Commelina benghalensis* (right side) in >>>> addition to the species in quiry. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 4:20 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Forwarding again for validation please. >>>>> >>>>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>>> >>>>> Isn't it *Commelina forsskalii *? >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Shobha >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not >>>>> know how to identify a *Commelina*. The problem is BSI restricts the >>>>> distribution of *C. forsskalaei* Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. >>>>> Regards >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> *Commelina* *diffusa* Burm.f. >>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fsites.google.com%2Ftpl%2Frecord%2Fkew-233842&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFisZoRRxh6GjYRG8fSkBzWQ20WJA>,- >>>>> from Santhan ji. >>>>> Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist >>>>> <http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483> >>>>> didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon >>>>> you have suggested. >>>>> There is very much confusion between *C. diffusa* Burm f. and *C. >>>>> caroliniana* Walter (in US). *C. caroliniana* is conspecific with *C. >>>>> hasskarlii* of India - >>>>> http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. >>>>> This species is *C. hasskarlii* C. B. Clarke. >>>>> Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal >>>>> and further opinion. >>>>> Thank you >>>>> Regards >>>>> surajit koley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: surajit koley <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: 9 September 2015 at 00:04 >>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the >>>>> bank of the pond >>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> These photographs were recorded on 02-Sept-2015 and today. This >>>>> species is thriving on the bank of ponds, village drainage, even on sides >>>>> of railway tracks, possibly in damp soil. >>>>> >>>>> Branching and rooting at nodes. >>>>> >>>>> Flowers are the size of *C. benghalensis* as can be seen in the last >>>>> pic (flowers in right is *C. benghalensis*) where two species growing >>>>> side by side. Leaves are upto 7.5 cm long and 2 cm wide. Only a very few >>>>> leaves are narrower than this. This species doesn't flower much, only a >>>>> very few shoots bear flower. >>>>> >>>>> Please help. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Manudev K Madhavan* >>>> Assistant Professor, >>>> Department of Botany, >>>> St. Joseph's College >>>> Medical College P.O. >>>> Kozhikode- 673 008 >>>> Mob: 9496470738 >>>> http://manudevkmadhavan.wix.com/manudev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or >> Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Mayur D. Nandikar, Department of Botany, Goa University, Taleigao Plateau, Goa 403 206 +919421969757 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
