Thanks, Chadwell ji. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: C CHADWELL Date: 21 September 2016 at 23:27 Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID To: "J.M. Garg" <jmga...@gmail.com>
*Clearly an Epilobium but another difficult genus. There are a number of similar-looking, small-flowered* *willowherbs found in Ladakh of which I understand E.royleanum to be the commonest. However, things* *are not simple. Excuse the lengthy comments which follow.* The two most distinctive 'Epilobiums' found in Ladakh are now within the genus *Chamerion* (at one time spelt *Chamaernerion)*: *Chamerion angustifolium *known in the UK as 'Rosebay Willow Herb' or 'Fireweed' - known in N.America as 'Dwarf Fireweed' or 'River Beauty Willowherb' is gregarious by alpine watercourses. In 'The New of the British Isles' Stace keys Chamerion from Epilobium on the basis of all the leaves being alternate, flowers held horizontally, slightly zygomorphic, whereas in Epilobium at least the lowest leaves are opposite, flowers +/- erect when open, actinomorphic. There are other differences. Stace also observes for the genus *Epilobium* (in the UK), "*Plants vary greatly in stature, leaf-size and degree of branching and* *of pubescence but the type of hairs and certain aspects of leaf-shape are relatively constant. Seed coat ornamentation * *is highly diagnostic, as is the presence of a terminal appendage, but a high magnification (x> 20) is required".* Unless seeds are present (most Epilobiums are photographed when in flower) this characteristic cannot be used to distinguish between closely related species and even if one examined the plants with a good hands lens, the magnification may not be sufficient to check the detail. This means in some cases pressed specimens which can be examined under a higher magnification binocular microscope may well be required to be certain, identification-wise. Stace also observes (for UK Epilobiums) that hybrids occur commonly where 2 or more species occur together, especially in quantity for several years in disturbed ground..... *So one can see this is rather complicated! *The images shared do not show much detail (the flowers are only in bud, not open). Sometimes insufficient detail is visible from even the best, perfectly in focus close-ups - which is why some plant taxonomists specialising in particular genera or families require quality pressed specimen to provide a reliable identifications. *Anyhow, what are the possibilities as to the species of Epilobium in Ladakh? Stewart ('An Annotated Catalogue of the Vascular Plants of Pakistan & Kashmir' 1972) lists 6 Epilobiums from Ladakh, whereas the most up-to-date checklist for Ladakh by Klimes & Dickore lists 12.... **'Flowers of the Himalaya' describe 7 (now 5) of c. 23 spp. but probably more are recognised from the Himalaya nowadays.* Klimes (a Czech Republic botanist who undertook excellent field work in Ladakh but sadly went missing and has not been found) lists 5 species in what he described as 'lower' Ladakh (meaning the places he explored that were not at high altitude). * Of these,* *I understand E.royleanum to be the most widespread* with specimens found in eroded stream banks, emerged bottoms, springs & irrigation channels. Stewart recorded it as very common, chiefly in the temperate zone of N.Pakistan and Kashmir with a 19th Century record in Nubra. The images posted do look close to the 2 small photos of *E.royleanum* in 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated' (Yoshida, 2005) but this book also has photos of *E.tibetanum* - not that I could distinguish between the two on the basis of the photos. I do have a copy of the revision of ONAGRACEAE, the family to which Epilobium belongs, for 'Flora of Pakistan' (which I cannot locate at present but will check latter). But not sure if it will help much or is fully up-to-date. There is the e-flora for Pakistan but this does not contain all the detail within the printed versions. RELYING UPON KEYS ONLY TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN SPECIES DOES NOT ALWAYS BRING A RELIABLE IDENTIFICATION. *This is all I can do for the present, perhaps there is someone with specialist knowledge of Epilobium who can say with confidence which species the images are of? **I cannot at this point - sometimes it is just not possible to tell similar species apart on the basis of* *photos which do not show sufficient detail - or the genus needs further study.* Best Wishes, Chris Chadwell 81 Parlaunt Road SLOUGH SL3 8BE UK http://www.shpa.org.uk/ ------------------------------ *From:* J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> *To:* efloraofindia <firstname.lastname@example.org> *Cc:* Saroj Kasaju <kasajusa...@gmail.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 September 2016, 1:45 *Subject:* Fwd: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID Thanks, Saroj ji ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Saroj Kasaju" <kasajusa...@gmail.com> Date: 18 Sep 2016 22:20 Subject: [efloraofindia:251611] SK105SEP18-1016:ID To: "efloraofindia" <email@example.com>, "J.M. Garg" < jmga...@gmail.com> Cc: Dear Members, Sharing some pictures for ID shot at Nubra Valley on 22 August 2014. My guess is some Epilobium sp. Thank you. Saroj Kasaju -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org . 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