Thanks, Chadwell ji On 24 Nov 2016 3:56 am, "C CHADWELL" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Thought best to collect my thoughts before responding further. I comment > about A.garwhalicum at the bottom. > > The problem with the links provided (and most from specialist nurseries, > growers and the like) is that such people (in good faith mostly - though it > is in the commercial interest of nurseries to list as many different > species & cultivars as possible, as there are collectors of all available > examples of favoured genera e.g. Androsace, Primula, Iris, Meconopsis, > Geranium etc.). They will buy if the species name or cultivar name is > different to what they already have (or think they have). > > The problem is that hardly any of those running nurseries, websites (even > the top horticulturists in the UK) have any proper training in how to > identify plants - to be fair, often few, if any reference books or other > resources exist. They rely on the name something arrived at. > > *The result is, as my own informal research suggests, a high proportion of > plants are misidentified in cultivation (just as a significant proportion > of plants seen during surveys and trips to the Himalaya are > misidentified). For plants under names of species found in the Himalaya > (some plants grow in the Himalaya and other regions of the world, so the > example may not have originated in the Himalaya) I judge at least 50% to be > misidentified (and I do not mean because they are hybrids, another > complication in cultivation) - I have checked plants from nurseries and > sources of seed, commercial and botanic garden index semina.* > > *Thus, we cannot expect the situation with Androsace in cultivation to be > any different.* > > *Of the links provided, the final two do not come close to the others and > in my opinion are not Androsace globifera.* > > *As to the identity of the plant photographed in VoF - this, as I have > already stated is definitely not A.mucronifolia. It might be A,globifera > but some sources say it should have flower-stalks (others like 'Flowers of > Himalaya' say short-stalked or stalkless. It is the most likely candidate.* > > There has long been confusion with the mat and cushion-forming species. > > Interestingly, the image of A,globifera in 'Flowers of the Himalaya' shows > flowers with darker central parts, as does the much larger photo of this > species in 'Portraits of Himalayan Flowers' (T.Yoshida), along with one of > the images in his 'Himalayan Plants Illustrated'. > > *As to Androsace garwhalicum. I have looked through the notes provided > when this species was described in 1988. I note the NEW species was > 'discovered' in the BSD herbarium, NOT in the wild. Their description and > the accompanying line drawings. I do not know who did the line drawings > but they do not appear to have been acknowledged. Anyhow, C.Bhattacharya > made the collection in Hemkund @ 4200m (though do not give a date) with the > type in Calcutta herbarium.* > > *I have to say the line drawing is a bit confusing as it appears to show > minute flowers a fraction of the length of the leaves, yet in the > description it states the petal lobes are 5.5mm long (whilst the leaves are > 2.5-5mm). Clearly a mistake. Ever more extraordinary is the claim that > the petals are pale blue. I don't know of too many Androsaces with blue > flowers! But I suspect I have the explanation and it stems from a problem > encountered by those examining dried specimens in herbaria - the colour of > dried flowers if often different to fresh ones. I am very surprised the > authors of this new species did not realise this (or the senior botanist > who went through the manuscript). Anyhow, as Professor Richards > says, petiolarid flowers which are pink when fresh dry blue..... Perhaps > the same has happened here? Maybe the blue flowers contributed to the > authors imaging the specimen was a Primula - hence but incorrectly, in my > mind, Primula garhwalicum. * > > *It would be helpful if a group member with access to BSD, DD or CAL > herbaria, could take good close-ups of the specimens of Androsace > garwhalicum and post them on this site, so we have these for reference > purposes.* > > *As the authors only gave a key to distinguish A.garwhalicum from > A.selago and this species is not found in Uttarakhand, I would like to be > clearer how to distinguish it from A.globifera, which is known from the > region and for which it presumably was mistaken for in the past?* > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> > *To:* Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> > *Cc:* C CHADWELL <[email protected]>; efloraofindia < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, 18 November 2016, 5:38 > *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:256124] Re: VoF Week :: DV :: 03 AUG 12 - > 0241 :: Primula garhwalica syn. Androsace garhwalica along Hemakund - > Ghangaria trail > > Thanks, Chadwell ji, > To me it appears close to Androsace globifera as per the following images > (though I may or may not be correct): > http://www.phytoimages.siu. edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/ Primulaceae_Androsace_ > globifera_93803.html > <http://www.phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_93803.html> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/ wiki/File:Androsace_globifera_ 3.JPG > <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Androsace_globifera_3.JPG> > https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Androsace_globifera#/media/ > File:Androsace_globifera.jpg > <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androsace_globifera#/media/File:Androsace_globifera.jpg> > https://www.nargs.org/plant/ androsace-globifera > <https://www.nargs.org/plant/androsace-globifera> > http://phytoimages.siu.edu/ imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_ > Androsace_globifera_70529.html > <http://phytoimages.siu.edu/imgs/Cusman1/r/Primulaceae_Androsace_globifera_70529.html> > http://garden.org/plants/view/ 133923/Rock-Jasmine-Androsace- globifera/ > <http://garden.org/plants/view/133923/Rock-Jasmine-Androsace-globifera/> > > On 9 November 2016 at 13:12, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks Chadwell ji for validating this post; will revise my notes at > flickr, when we reach to any conclusion. > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:13 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Chadwell ji > > On 9 Nov 2016 7:35 am, "[email protected] om > <[email protected]>" <[email protected] om > <[email protected]>> wrote: > > I am confused by this. It certainly appears to be an Androsace rather > than a Primula. > > *I am not familiar with this species. Clearly it has been named by Indian > botanists. Could someone tell me the publication this species was > described in and how it is distinguished from related species?* > > *See the other posting re: Androsace mucronifolia (or not as the case).* > > > On Saturday, August 25, 2012 at 10:23:07 AM UTC+1, Dinesh Valke wrote: > > * Primula garhwalica * (Balodi & S.Singh) K.K.Khanna & An.Kumar ... > (family: Cyperaceae) > syn. *Androsace garhwalica* Balodi & S.Singh > [image: Brahmakamal near Hemakund] > <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F7851637218%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzf79MRP3Fs2WySl9Lvl-tWbzBNsuw> > 3 AUG 12 > Hemakund - Ghangaria trail ... about 12200 ft > ------------------------------ > [image: Primula garhwalica] > <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F7855615568%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEze02H9-xBEBS3HjJf1LEJQ7hskVdQ> > > [image: Primula garhwalica] > <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Fdinesh_valke%2F7855620258%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFrqEzeuhsadYxNfh27a2lCVG1ww55wA5g> > Regards. > Dinesh > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com > <[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix > <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
