---------- Forwarded message --------- From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 13:32 Subject: Re: [itpmods:14622] Fwd: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense To: Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> Cc: itpmods <[email protected]>
Here is the description from FBI as per IBIS Flora: Verbascum celsioides Benth <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/verbascum-celsioides-benth>.: *Benth, in DC. Prodr.* x. 229 ; glandular-pubescent,* lower leaves pinnatisect, upper auricled cordate acuminate, *flowers racemose. KUMAON ; at the foot of the hills, Edgeworth. The PUNJAB ; at Hussan, Aitchison. Stem 2-3 ft. *Leaves 4-6 in., *sessile or petioled,* irregularly toothed and lobulate*. Flowers in a long loose raceme ; bracts ovate-lanceolate ; *pedicels 1/2-3/4 in.* Sepals oblong, obtuse. Corolla 1/2 in. diam. *Stamens 4-5 ; filaments woolly*.—This species, being sometimes tetrandrous, unites Verbascum with Celsia. Celsia coromandeliana Vahl <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/celsia-coromandeliana-vahl-0> in FBI: *Vahl Symb*. iii. 79 ; finely pubescent or tomentose, glandular above, *root-leaves petioled lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline sessile oblong-ovate toothed,* racemes simple or panicled, sepals entire or toothed. Benth, in DC. Prodr. x. 246 ; Roxb. Fl, Ind. iii. 100 ; Wall. Cat. 2631 ; Wight Ill. t. 165, bis f. 1, right hand, and Ic. t. 1406 ; Dalz. & Gibs. Bomb. Fl. 176 ; Boiss. Fl. Orient, iv. 358. C. viscosa, Roth Catal. Bot. ii. 69, and iii. 50 ; Wight in Hook. Journ. Bot: i. (1834) 228, t. 129 ; Nees in Trans. Linn. Soc. xvii. 81, in part. Throughout INDIA ; from the Punjab to Ceylon and Pegu, ascending to 5000 ft.— DISTRIB. Affghanistan, Ava, China. Annual. Stem 2-3 ft., stout or slender. *Leaves 2-4 in., the large terminal lobe usually oblong, obtuse, toothed.* Raceme 1-2 ft. ; *pedicels 1/4-1/3 in. *; bracts ovate, shorter. Sepals oblong or ovate. Corolla 1/2 in. diam., yellow. *Filaments all hairy. *Capsule subglobose, 1/4-1/3 in. diam. Celsia coromandeliana Vahl in Flora of Bombay Presidency by Cooke <https://flora.indianbiodiversity.org/content/celsia-coromandeliana-vahl>: *Vahl, Symb. Bot. v. 3 (1794) p. 79.* An annual herb ; stem 2-3 ft. high, hairy, often branched near the top. *Leaves : radical 2-4 by 3/4-1.1/2 in., on long petioles, lyrate, compound or pinnatisect, with several small leaflets or segments at the base and a large ovate-oblong subacute terminal lobe ; lower cauline leaves similar but smaller, and with shorter petioles ; upper cauline leaves gradually becoming smaller and sessile, passing into bracts, all coarsely dentate, more or less hairy on both sides. *Flowers yellow, in simple or branched terminal racemes 1-2 ft. long ; rhachis glandular-pubescent ; *pedicels longer than the calyx, glandular-pubescent ;* *bracts (or floral leaves) foliaceous, ovate, acute, sessile, gradually becoming smaller upwards. *Calyx rather less than 1/4 in. long, deeply divided, glandular-pubescent ; lobes 1/6 in. long, linear-oblong, subacute. Corolla rotate, 1/2 in. in diam. ; lobes 5, rounded. *Filaments densely bearded with purple hairs. *Ovary globose, glabrous ; style glabrous. Capsules 1/4-1/3 in. in diam., subglobose. Seeds 1/50 in. long, oblong, truncate, warted. Fl. B. I. v. 4, p. 251 ; Dalz. & Gibs. p. 176 ; Wight, Icon. t. 1406 ; Aitch. Pb. & Sind Pl. p. 105 ; Trim. Fl. Ceyl. v. 3, p. 240 ; Woodr, in Journ. Bomb. Nat. v. 12 (1898) p. 174 ; Watt, Dict. Econ. Prod. v. 2, p. 241. Celsia Arcturus, Grah. Cat. p. 141 (not of Jacq.).—Flowers : Jan.-May. VERN. Kutaki. Konkan : Law ! Deccan ; waste places, Dalzell & Gibson ; Poona, Cooke !, Wood¬row ! ; Raighar Fort, Dalzell & Gibson. Gujarat : Woodrow. Sind : Stocks ! — Distrib. *Throughout India ; Ceylon, Afghanistan, Ava, China*. The plant has some repute in native medicine. See Watt, Dict. Econ. Prod. l. c. Even from the above, I am not able to bifurcate our posts at Verbascum chinense <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum/verbascum-chinense> . May I request you to have a look at Verbascum chinense <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum/verbascum-chinense> and point out one post which is different from others? On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 12:20, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Garg ji > Verbascum coromandelianum (Vahl) Kuntze as understood as distinct species > is described in FBI as V. celsioides Benth. It will have 5 stamens but > sometimes 4 (hence confusion), lower leaves are pinnatisect , 4-6 inch long > (lyrate-pinnatifid, 2-4 inch long in chinense), pedicels 12-20 mm long > (only 4-8 mm long in Chinense), filaments woolly (hairy in chinense) > All three are described in FBI, we can always find from there. > > > > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Mob: 9810359089 > https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thanks, Singh ji, >> I am asking for the difference between *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) >> Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) Kuntze. >> >> Flora of China >> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >> mentions >> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum >> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them (*Verbascum >> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) >> Kuntze)) as independent species. >> >> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 09:58, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Verbascum chinense is what was described in Flora of British India as >>> Celsia coromandelianum >>> Differences are so obvious >>> V. thapsus: stamens 5, basal leaves not divided, cauline strongly >>> decurrent, densely woolly >>> V. chinensis: stamens 4, basal leaves lyrate-pinnatifid, cauline not >>> decurrent, not densely woolly. >>> The species are well represented on Flowers of India >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Mob: 9810359089 >>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 9:18 AM J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, Anil ji, >>>> Flora of China >>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >>>> mentions >>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau (syn: *Verbascum >>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze), while POWO reports both of them >>>> (*Verbascum >>>> chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau & *Verbascum coromandelianum *(Vahl) >>>> Kuntze)) as independent species. >>>> We do not know the difference between the two. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 08:26, Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You are right, Garg ji >>>>> But the confusion arises when one data base considers some species as >>>>> accepted and the other as a synonym of some other name. >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, 7:16 am J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, Anil ji, >>>>>> POWO is not the ultimate solution. Catalogue of Life is far ahead in >>>>>> many families, particularly those which are not there in WCSP from Kew. >>>>>> Both needs to consulted simultaneously where species are not listed >>>>>> in WCSP. >>>>>> However, any inputs in this matter. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep, 2020, 10:49 pm Dr. Anil Kumar Thakur, < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Garg ji, there are many such problems with closely related species >>>>>>> on different databases. Therefore, I consult only POWO at present. >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020, 9:30 pm J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>> From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:29 >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Confusion regarding Verbascum chinense >>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Flora of China >>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=210002271> >>>>>>>> mentions >>>>>>>> *Verbascum chinense* (Linnaeus) Santapau(syn: *Scrophularia >>>>>>>> chinensis* Linnaeus; *Celsia coromandeliana* Vahl; *Verbascum >>>>>>>> coromandelianum* (Vahl) Kuntze; *V. sinense* H. Léveillé & Giraud). >>>>>>>> I could not find any clue on searching the net. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Sep 2020 at 21:27, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Catalogue of life >>>>>>>>> <https://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/d55b5c237016ce7779b35b1514454795> >>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum chinense* (L.) Santapau as a syn. of *Verbascum >>>>>>>>> coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense* (L.) D. Mc Kean with >>>>>>>>> distribution as China (Guangxi, Sichuan, Yunnan), Pakistan (Sind, >>>>>>>>> Pakistani Punjab, Rawalpindi, N.W.Frontier Prov., Peshawar), Jammu & >>>>>>>>> Kashmir (Kashmir). >>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:810918-1> >>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum chinense *(L.) Santapau with native range is >>>>>>>>> Afghanistan to S. China and Indo-China (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, >>>>>>>>> Cambodia, China South-Central, China Southeast, India, Laos, >>>>>>>>> Thailand, West >>>>>>>>> Himalaya) >>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:891511-1> >>>>>>>>> also gives *Verbascum coromandelianum* subsp. *sinense *with native >>>>>>>>> to China South-Central. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Catalogue of life >>>>>>>>> <https://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/d55b5c237016ce7779b35b1514454795> >>>>>>>>> also gives *Verbascum coromandelianum *subsp. *coromandelianum* >>>>>>>>> with distribution as Afghanistan (Kandahar), ?Pakistan, India, >>>>>>>>> Myanmar [Burma] (Ayeyarwady, Bago, Mandalay, Yangon), NE-Thailand, Sri >>>>>>>>> Lanka, Laos, Cambodia, India, Bangladesh. >>>>>>>>> POWO >>>>>>>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:810960-1#children> >>>>>>>>> gives *Verbascum coromandelianum *with native range is E. & SE. >>>>>>>>> Afghanistan to Myanmar (Afghanistan, India, Myanmar, Sri Lanka). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have mainly only two species in India as per details at >>>>>>>>> Verbascum >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae/verbascum> >>>>>>>>> (*V. chinense *and *V.thapsus*) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can anybody help in clearing this confusion? What should be the >>>>>>>>> status of our *V.chinense* >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/s/scrophulariaceae> >>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCxjaHjWbdqBCG85XM_5VPb6kcFf%2BfH7DSO4Ts%2Biti_Xw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCxjaHjWbdqBCG85XM_5VPb6kcFf%2BfH7DSO4Ts%2Biti_Xw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZkXgGZrsuDdSwNt24G70q0KdO7%2BKua-koyp8scLyTxvfA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZkXgGZrsuDdSwNt24G70q0KdO7%2BKua-koyp8scLyTxvfA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCCvVYnZHya4E3CZC%2BNwQiLxfMGa6aaPiZiacE6m08Bng%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCCvVYnZHya4E3CZC%2BNwQiLxfMGa6aaPiZiacE6m08Bng%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZnvd_VB4ikrGsHoqmhVTRNQ3J3ycmJfi4j1e6U7SMuDXA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAEWs%3DZnvd_VB4ikrGsHoqmhVTRNQ3J3ycmJfi4j1e6U7SMuDXA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCjnMUWtVrQU8w_AhWWsHWNNFesBYUx5knB-c5e3w44zA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CA%2BiuSFCjnMUWtVrQU8w_AhWWsHWNNFesBYUx5knB-c5e3w44zA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "ITPmods" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAHiXKpXgGQU7qySGv05t1bk-x%2BzFYrA-miRg9yZD1pYCTVO%3DxQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/itpmods/CAHiXKpXgGQU7qySGv05t1bk-x%2BzFYrA-miRg9yZD1pYCTVO%3DxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFBdyZP0v2pahE%2BOZBWHscZ%3D7FsN-Bt5%3Dknzji21o%3D%2BPSQ%40mail.gmail.com.
