To me the images posted by Narendra Joshi Ji are closer to *S. glacialis* or allied species in which plants are woolly in appearance. *S. bracteata* as I understand and as mentioned in indian floristic literature and also in the book by Stainton (Supplement to Flowers of the Himalaya, plate-55), is a plant with distinct erect stem and long lanceolate leaves. It resembles *S. obvallata* in habit. *S. bracteata* and *S. schultzii* may be two separate species but Indian literature has merged them into *S. bracteata*. These may be different species but must be closer in morphology based on which indian literature merges them together. Both of these species (*S.bracteata* or *S. schultzii*) do not resemble the images posted by Joshi Ji.
DSRawat, Pantnagar ------------------------------------------------------- Dr D.S. Rawat Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA *eflorapantnagar* <https://sites.google.com/site/eflorapantnagar/home> displaying wild flora of Pantnagar On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 5:14 PM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: > Saussurea bracteata > > On Sat, 21 Nov 2020 at 16:52, D.S Rawat <drdsrawat.alpin...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Is the species posted by Narendra Joshi Ji is *Saussurea bracteata/ S. >> shultzii* ? >> >> DSRawat Pantnagar >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Dr D.S. Rawat >> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & >> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA >> *eflorapantnagar* <https://sites.google.com/site/eflorapantnagar/home> >> displaying wild flora of Pantnagar >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 4:43 PM Saroj Kasaju <kasajusa...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Thank you Mr. Garg. Finally ID is resolved! Now we have to separate two >>> sp. >>> >>> Saroj Kasaju >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 3:24 PM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> After going through the specimens in GBIF >>>> <https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?country=IN&taxon_key=9576936> from >>>> India, I think it is Saussurea bracteata (Pl. ignore the specimens of S >>>> schultzii shown here in GBIF): >>>> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2620000459 >>>> https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2873912368 >>>> >>>> https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fquod.lib.umich.edu%2Fcgi%2Fi%2Fimage%2Fapi%2Fimage%2Fherb00ic%3A1539372%3AMICH-V-1539372%2Ffull%2Fres%3A0%2F0%2Fnative.jpg >>>> >>>> https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fquod.lib.umich.edu%2Fcgi%2Fi%2Fimage%2Fapi%2Fimage%2Fherb00ic%3A1539387%3AMICH-V-1539387%2Ffull%2Fres%3A0%2F0%2Fnative.jpg >>>> *Saussurea nana* (Pamp.) Pamp. >>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:242472-1> >>>> is >>>> treated as a syn. of *Saussurea bracteata *DC. by POWO >>>> <http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:242115-1> >>>> (They >>>> have wrongly shown specimen of S schultzii here). >>>> Also matches the description as given in the book link sent by Tabish >>>> ji and Saroj ji (I think from FBI). >>>> >>>> Specimens of S schultzii from India look different as per GBIF >>>> <https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/gallery?country=IN&taxon_key=5404606>: >>>> >>>> https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fquod.lib.umich.edu%2Fcgi%2Fi%2Fimage%2Fapi%2Fimage%2Fherb00ic%3A1539366%3AMICH-V-1539366%2Ffull%2Fres%3A0%2F0%2Fnative.jpg >>>> >>>> https://api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fmediaphoto.mnhn.fr%2Fmedia%2F1444240236496zVd9dnPkf7ZrLca3 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 at 18:22, Saroj Kasaju <kasajusa...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This specimen looks like S schultzii according to the book of Klimes >>>>> and Dickore. >>>>> Some links they have merged but POWO, Klimes and Dickore book and >>>>> listing , >>>>> IPNI and BHL treats them separately. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Saroj Kasaju >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 6:30 PM D.S Rawat < >>>>> drdsrawat.alpin...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000891799 >>>>>> >>>>>> Saussurea bracteata specimen in Kew Herbarium >>>>>> >>>>>> DSRawat Pantnagar >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov, 2020, 5:27 pm Saroj Kasaju, <kasajusa...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Re: Saussurea bracteata >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/yg9ImvP4yTE/m/3XZA5wn0AgAJ> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Saroj Kasaju >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 3:04 PM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looks different from images at Saussurea bracteata >>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/ar/asteraceae/carduoideae/saussurea/saussurea-bracteata> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 15:51, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Saussurea bracteata Decne. ?? >>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>> Saroj Kasaju >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>>> From: J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 at 20:48 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:253131] Kailash-Manasarovar >>>>>>>>> Yatra::Saussurea inversa NSJ-OCT 16/11 >>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>> Cc: D.S Rawat <drdsrawat.alpin...@gmail.com>, < >>>>>>>>> chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>, Narendra Joshi < >>>>>>>>> narend...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for Id assistance please. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting Saussurea species. A trans-Himalayan one as I suppose. >>>>>>>>> S. inversa is not known in Uttarakhand. >>>>>>>>> DSRawat Pantnagar >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a new 'species' for me but I am doubtful it is *S.inversa* >>>>>>>>> on the basis of the image taken in Paddar Valley named as such on the >>>>>>>>> FOI >>>>>>>>> site see: >>>>>>>>> http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Inverse%20Snow%20Lotus.html >>>>>>>>> which is presumably where the provisional name came from matching >>>>>>>>> with? >>>>>>>>> Not recorded from Ladakh or known in Stewart's day (assuming it is >>>>>>>>> found in >>>>>>>>> W.Himalaya). Not in 'Enumeration of Flowering Plants of Nepal'. Many >>>>>>>>> 'new' species have been described in the Himalaya in recent decades - >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> complicated genus (like so many). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for existing species, there is much confusion between >>>>>>>>> *S.simpsoniana* and *S.gossypiphora* in the W.Himalaya. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As two of our members named the image on the FOI site they are in >>>>>>>>> a much better position to comment further, especially as I do not >>>>>>>>> recognise >>>>>>>>> these images or the one from the Paddar Valley but the images do not >>>>>>>>> come >>>>>>>>> close to me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just noticed that an article on Research Gate, see: >>>>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272383552_The_genus_Saussurea_Compositae_Cardueae_in_China_Taxonomic_and_nomenclatural_notes >>>>>>>>> states that *S.sorocephala* var. glabrata is raised to specific >>>>>>>>> rank as *S.inversa*. Stewart had *S.sorocephala* Schrenk as a >>>>>>>>> synonym of *S.gnaphalodes* (which is common in Laadkh); he >>>>>>>>> thought this variety seemed to be the same as *S.hypsipeta* >>>>>>>>> Diels (yet does not list this species in his Catalogue) and probably >>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>> be considered only to be a glabrate form. *Saussurea hypsipeta* >>>>>>>>> is listed by Dickore & Klimes from Ladakh - there is an excellent >>>>>>>>> image of >>>>>>>>> it by our member Miroslav: >>>>>>>>> http://www.butbn.cas.cz/ladakh/fotky/flora/subnival_eng.html. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Clearly, Miroslav may be able to comment in a more informed way >>>>>>>>> than me. >>>>>>>>> --- from Chris Chadwell ji. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To me it appears close to *Saussurea glacialis* Herder >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/ar/asteraceae/carduoideae/saussurea/saussurea-glacialis> >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> per image herein. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>> From: Narendra Joshi <narend...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: 6 October 2016 at 22:48 >>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:253131] Kailash-Manasarovar >>>>>>>>> Yatra::Saussurea inversa NSJ-OCT 16/11 >>>>>>>>> To: indiantreepix <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear All, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Saussurea inversa for validation. Photo taken just after crossing >>>>>>>>> Lipulekh pass (China border) on Aug 27, 2016. Height approx 15000 >>>>>>>>> feet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With Regards, >>>>>>>>> Narendra Joshi >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>> in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or >>>>>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>>>> species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more >>>>>>>>> than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, >>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> >>> > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAP5oboKwbWDvZzB%2BV_zFN8hZNYGQ%2BdnucLWtRR6h7cyVNsh6Lw%40mail.gmail.com.
