Hi, Tapas ji, What about its id as *Phyllanthus macraei* as per GBIF <https://www.gbif.org/species/5382353> specimen <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/https%3A%2F%2Fmedialib.naturalis.nl%2Ffile%2Fid%2FU.1472314%2Fformat%2Flarge> and images at https://efloraofindia.com/2011/04/09/phyllanthus-macraei/ ?
On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 at 16:11, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote: > Two persons, one from Delhi University and the other from IISC Bangalore > had contacted me for initial identifications of their specimens for > initiating molecular studies. Unfortunately none of them have published > their findings yet. One person published a new species, P. palakondensis. > The other person from Delhi shared me images from three localities of TN > and AP and asked me to name them. I found that the supposed morphological > differences between P. gardnerianus and P. narayanswamii are not standing > good due to presence of intermediate plants (images). However, P. simplex > stands separate for its much narrower and thinner leaves and presence of > bisexual cymules, absent in the other two. > Meanwhile Bouman et al. (2022) recognized these species as distinct under > the genus Cathetus. They had not studied DNA samples of P. narayanswamii. > In concusion, in my opinion, morphologically P. naraynswamii is same as P. > gardnerianus but different from P. simplex. > I hope molecular data and field observations will eventually clarify the > situation. > With regards, > Tapas > > On Sun, 18 Dec 2022, 15:48 J.M. Garg, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Forwarding again for Id assistance please. >> >> Some earlier relevant feedback: >> This is not at all P. rangachariarii. Just now I noticed that the male >> sepals are 6. >> The characters of the plant point to very close alliance to Phyllanthus >> clarkei in almost all characters. But I have some doubts because P. clarkei >> in not known from peninsular India so far and the leaves here are stiffly >> coriaceous. The glands in male flowers appear to be 6 instead of 3. >> So, please study your plant very carefully once again and compare with P. >> clarkei (now called Cathetus clarkei). >> With regards, >> >> Tapas >> >> Even closer to P. gardnerianus but leaves sessile and thickly >> coriaceous.- from Tapas ji >> Thanks for pointing the mistake in id. You are absolutely correct it >> can't be *Phyllanthus rangachariarii* owing to the characters you >> mentioned i.e. 6 perianth and glands in male flowers instead of 4 in >> *P. rangachariarii*). Additionally my plant is much smaller is height >> not taller than 2 feets while *P. rangachariarii* is a much bigger shrub >> upto 2 metre tall. >> I also checked type material images available on BSI virtual herbarium, >> confirming the same. >> >> https://ivh.bsi.gov.in/phanerogams/en?search_bar=Phyllanthus+rangachariarii&selection=Scientific_Name >> With best regards >> >> Ashutosh Sharma >> This must be *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble >> Under shrub upto 2 metre tall. Leaves alternative,sessile, elliptic >> coriaceous with thickened recurved margins. Perianth lobes 6 with 6 small >> glands in male flowers. Fruit capsule globose with verrucose glands. All >> these characters are matching with *Phyllanthus narayanswamii *Gamble >> So our plant is *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* Gamble, which is already >> reported from the Agasthyamala Biosphere Reserve where I have clicked this >> plant. >> Tapas sir I hope the identity is correct now! >> With best regards >> >> Ashutosh Sharma >> Syn. of *Phyllanthus virgatus *G.Forst. ? ? Looks different from >> images at >> http://flora-peninsula-indica.ces.iisc.ac.in/herbsheet.php?id=3940&cat=7 >> ! >> Now , *Cathetus virgatus* (G.Forst.) R.W.Bouman ?? >> Please compare with *Phyllanthus macraei *Müll.Arg. . Now: *Cathetus >> rheedei* (Wight) R.W.Bouman >> >> https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flowersofindia.net%2Fcatalog%2Fslides%2FMacrae%27s%2520Leaf-Flower.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flowersofindia.net%2Fcatalog%2Fslides%2FMacrae%2527s%2520Leaf-Flower.html&tbnid=y_CcsFWbZQlm0M&vet=12ahUKEwiMqv75s_P7AhVMhNgFHTQvB68QMygAegQIARBT..i&docid=ic-GNIA7lTEb8M&w=600&h=449&q=Phyllanthus%20macraei&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwiMqv75s_P7AhVMhNgFHTQvB68QMygAegQIARBT >> Thank you. >> >> Saroj Kasaju >> Someone recently united P. narayanswamii under P. virgatus but kept P. >> gardnerianus distinct. Bouman et al. (2022) maintained all as distinct. I >> am fully confused here. P. virgatus is a Pacific species while P. simplex >> is Asian. Someone recently informed me that P. narayanswsmii is distinct >> from P. gardnerianus by habit, habitat and DNA data. >> My studies based on specimens and images indicate that narayanswamii and >> gardnerianus should be merged but considering the confusions, I will not go >> for any taxonomic changes. Let someone clarify these 3 species with field >> data combined with DNA studies. >> With regards, >> >> Tapas >> Thanks for your valuable comments Tapas sir. I agree with your views and >> meanwhile someone clarify these 3 species based on field data combined with >> DNA/molecular studies, Garg ji in my opinion we should keep it as a >> separate species on our website under page *Phyllanthus narayanswamii* >> Gamble. >> Please note than Verwijs *et al.* 2019 while synonymizing P. >> *narayanswamii* under *P. virgatus* have also mentioned some difference >> "The nervature of the leaves on the type of *P. narayanswamii* differs a >> little bit from other specimens of* P. virgatus *in the prominent >> nervature on the lower side of the leaf blade". Also it is notable that >> when the publication of Verwijs *et al. *came in October 2019, at around >> same time (just two months before in August) came another publication in >> Phytotaxa entitled "Taxonomic and habitat update to *Phyllanthus >> narayanswamii *(Phyllanthaceae): an endemic and endangered species from >> southern India" which is not referred in the publication of Verwijs *et >> al. *because as I mentioned earlier they got published round same time*.* So >> before this publication only little data was available about *P. >> narayanswamii* with no any images, so who knows if the publication on *P. >> narayanswamii* taxonomic and habitat update would have came earlier, >> Verwijs *et al. m*ay have retained the distinct species status of *P. >> narayanswamii* as they retained the status of *P. gardnerianus* and *P. >> tararae. *They have also mentioned in their paper abstract that "The >> species complex around *Phyllanthus virgatus* remains taxonomically >> difficult" and we are suffering from the same thing here... >> Thanks and regards >> >> Ashutosh Sharma >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: Ashutosh Sharma <[email protected]> >> Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 at 12:35 >> Subject: [efloraofindia:438048] Phyllanthus rangachariarii Murugan, >> Kabeer & G.V.S.Murthy submission AS27 December 22 >> To: indiantreepix <[email protected]> >> >> >> Dear members, >> >> Here's a new addition to eFloraofIndia website. >> >> *Phyllanthus rangachariari*i Murugan, Kabeer & G.V.S.Murthy >> Family - Phyllanthaceae >> >> This rare species is narrow endemic to Agasthyamala Biosphere Reserve, >> Tamil Nadu >> >> Photographed in Kanyakumari district, Tamil Nadu >> In November 2022 >> >> With best regards >> Ashutosh Sharma >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "eFloraofIndia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CADkfUKt28TAcaaX%3DCzaMzMYwZe6ugus_wLcj0DPvT71on6%2Brug%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CADkfUKt28TAcaaX%3DCzaMzMYwZe6ugus_wLcj0DPvT71on6%2Brug%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. 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