Thanks everybody! What I really like about the contributions thus far is that they are pretty much non-religious speak. I was pressed with last Sunday's reading about the scribes who where so good at their long prayers but who economically were indistinguishable to the best of the business vultures. Then I got depressed again thinking how I am happy to receive interest from the bank (something I can get simply because I have money) and receiving the best rent that I can out of my investment house (meaning that the lessee is not able to buy their own house) ... actually that is off the track.
The thing about the prayers is our "religious speak", our Christian (and may as well be "secret") code, that we use to talk about God (I even fear using Christ because I reckon it is a "code" word). Anyway, I notice that the person who can use the religious speak best gets the biggest prize. Yet for the most of us it has quite successfully prevented us from dealing with the real issues of our own (communal) faith, and has made us unintelligible to others. But Rob's question "why do you still follow ... Jesus" helped me a lot because it begged of me a previous question "DO YOU follow Jesus?" I would love for people to give that a go and see what reasons we have for our claim. The part of me that follows Jesus does so because, as quoted, I hear in his words and deeds the "words of eternal life", or in my own language, "What Jesus says makes sense of my existence as part of the wider human existence, making life incredible in the process, and I keep finding as I live the claims of Jesus that they are true. I really do find life in giving up my own life ... as crazy as that sounds ... and all that other stuff that Jesus talks about. Having said all that I have a problem. Jesus is not here physically to follow so I don't know if I am following him and when I read Mark's gospel, I'm not sure I am. For one thing, if I was following Jesus I think I would feel more like I am part of a movement rather than an institution. It is said that when Jesus added the next bit "go sell all you have and give it to the poor" was not an extra. He was meaning that the point of all the laws Jesus had just quoted was to lead the Israelite people to prevent domination, abuse, and to value compassion, justice, and service to those in need. To Jesus those laws meant selling everything you have and giving it to the poor, the only reason he mentioned it explicitly is because the rich man didn't understand that (some may recognise Bill Loader's comments in there). Well I'm stuffed. I don't even know who the poor are in my town ... do you? I mean, as individuals. While we have been raving on about homosexuality Jesus, by way of the lectionary readings, has told us all that we have missed the point. How many of us have gone out and found a homosexual and became their companion? I know some have ... actually I probably could count them on the fingers of one hand. I've been getting my knickers in a knot about laws and Jesus is telling me to sell all I have and give it to the poor. There seems to be this huge void between me and where Jesus is. So, I have to ask myself, am I following Jesus? I'm impressed by what he says, but so probably was Hitler. Tom Hi All, Tom, why do you still follow, even knowing the cost/sacrifice/hard stuff about Jesus message? Rob If this email relates to work matters its contents are confidential and intended for the recipient only. Using information in any other context may be a breach of privacy legislation. Midnight Oil 1976-2002 "Failure requires no preparation" The Sandman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Stuart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Dumb Question Yes Sue, that is another angle. I was referring to the people who struggle with Jesus message. You rightly point to the sacrifice that has to be made when we follow Jesus (though I note, from your email, that others make far more a sacrifice than me). I was aware of the quote (though I was thinking of the Mark version that we had read not too many weeks back). I guess it didn't complete the answer for me ... that is, how did they see that Jesus was offering eternal life in his words. I had another helpful reply which was about thinking the answer from others perspectives ... say from blind Bartimaeus' perspective. That is, it is not hard to see what he followed Jesus. We can see why the rich man DIDN'T follow Jesus. So maybe I am looking from the perspective of the rich man. The gospel is always (as I have heard quoted) good news for some and bad news for others. Thanks Tom >So here is my dumb question: If no one understood Jesus, and when they did >they realised they could not live the sort of life Jesus demanded, why did >anyone keep following him? >Seriously, why did they keep following him? John 6 67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve. 68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God." A timely question, given that this is the week of 'International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church' [organised by World Evangelical Alliance et al]. 200 million Christians worldwide currently face persecution. 400 million face serious discrimination and restrictions. Why are Christians prepared to endure imprisonment, torture and death? Why would a woman flee her homeland, leaving husband and son behind, rather than renounce her faith? etc etc etc Sue Sue Bolton Sydney, Australia ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
